Kirtan: Enthusiasm and Dignity. To become dependent on Krishna

Goswāmī Mahārāj: So, Prabhu, are there some questions?
Devotee:: Yes, Mahārāj. First, may you say, may you tell us little about your
preaching program in China?
Goswāmī Mahārāj: Oh, sure. [laughing]. Three knew initiates; hari-nām initiates. One lady’s husband; Jayantī—her husband took hari-nām. Also Dhruva Prabhu—his wife took hari-nām; very nice lady. And, a new young girl, whose old... first... is Phulendu; then Indriyani. And last—this young girl, whose very compassionate toward everyone, and following vegetarianism strictly, for sometime; fierce and very concerned about other living beings, and pleading on their behove for compassion and mercy. So, her name's Karuṇa; Karuṇa Moi.

Goswami Maharaj: So, Prabhu, are there some question?
Dinashraya Prabhu: Yeh, Maharaj. First, may You say, may You tell us little us about your preaching program in China?
Goswami Maharaj: Oh, sure. [Laughing]. Three knew initiates, Harinam initiates. One lady’s husband (Jayanty — her husband) took Harinam. Also Dhruva Prabhu - his wife took Harinam, very nice lady, and a new young girl, [who… All first is Phulendu. Then Indrany. And last this young girl, who very compassionate toward everyone and following vegetarianism strictly, sometime [fears] and very concerned about other living beings and [pleeing] under behove for compassion and mercy. So her name Koruna, Koruna Moi.

Really means Radharani is full of compassion. Krishna consciousness is the ultimate compassion for everyone. Not just what is called humane in the contemporary world.
But kripambuddhi yat paraduhkha duhkhi . The vayshnava’s sadness, unhappiness is to see suffering on account of the absence of Krishna or lack of a connection with Krishna.
And we see also these devotees enthusiastic to establish some places within the existing system there where can be an excess point for people to come in connection with Krishna consciousness. So, and our devotees behaving very sweetly and preaching nicely, and every night someone coming to the center showing interest. So, very happy about it, inspired about it. So in a difficult circumstance they’re showing, what can be done, just as…

Really, means—Rādhārāṇī, is full of compassion. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the ultimate compassion for everyone. Not just what is called humane in the contemporary world. But kṛpāmbudhir yaḥ para-duḥkha-duḥkhī (Vk: 6.3). The vaiṣṇava’s sadness, unhappiness, is to see suffering on account of the absence of Kṛṣṇa, or lack of a connection with Kṛṣṇa. And, we see also, these devotees enthusiastic to establish some places within the existing system there, where can be an access point for people, to come in connection with Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So, and our devotees behaving very sweetly, and preaching nicely. And every night someone coming to the center, showing interest. So, I'm very happy about it; inspired about it. So in a difficult circumstance they’re showing, what can be done.

When Bhakti Abhaya Narayan Maharaj [myself] first met with Shrila Guru Maharaj in Gaura Purnima of 1979, and he heard that we were preaching in eastern Europe in so-called [kaminous] countries. You’ve heard of that. [Laughing]. And Russia, going to Russia sometimes. And Guru Maharaj, he was very happy about it, and he said, “Oh! If you’re giving some difficult seva, you get more mercy”. So you should consider yourselves really fortunate, that some difficult seva came to you. He was, gave us a very inspiring talk, like… It was like thematically similar to Kunti’s
“vipadah santu tah sasvat tatra tatra djagat guro
bhavato darsanam yat syat apunar bhava-darsanam”

Just, as when Bhakti Abhaya Nārāyaṇ Mahārāj, myself, first met with Śrīla Guru Mahārāj in Gaura-pūrṇimā of 1979. And he heard, that we were preaching in eastern Europe; in, so-called, 'communist countries'. You’ve heard of that, I'm sure.[laughing]. And Russia; going to Russia sometimes. And Guru Mahārāj, he was very happy about it, and he said, “Oh! If you’re given some difficult sevā, you get more mercy.” So, you should consider yourselves really fortunate, that some difficult sevā came to you. He was... gave us a very inspiring talk, like... It was like, thematically, similar to Kuntī’s;
vipadaḥ santu tāḥ śaśvat
tatra tatra jagad-guro
bhavato darśanaṁ yat syād
apunar bhava-darśanam
(Śrīmad Bhāgavatam: 1.8.25)

When devotees find themselves in situations, that are… the environment is [at odds] in extreme way what they were trying to do whether [непонятно] socially, politically otherwise. They may become the recipients of even greater amount quality quantity of grace.
I was remembering today in “Chaytanya-Bhagavat”, it’s interesting, and in “Charitamritam” in Mahaprabhu’s pastimes. He is Svayam Bhagavan. But because at the social-political situation sometimes devotees will come and advise Him not to go on this road at this time, where there some local relative conflict going on.
So you would think the Absolute, He doesn’t, you know, that being that person, for Whom a blade of grass doesn’t move without His will, that this would be irrelevant to Him.

When devotees find themselves in situations, that are... the environment is at odds, in extreme way—with what they're trying to do—whether's socially, politically, or otherwise. They may become the recipients of even greater amount—quality, quantity of grace. I was remembering today, in Chaitanya-bhāgavat... It’s interesting... and in Charitāmṛta, in Mahāprabhu’s pastimes. He is svayaṁ bhagavān, but, because of the socio-political situation, sometimes devotees will come, and advise Him not to go on this rout at this time, where there's some local, relative conflict going on. So, you would think, as the Absolute, He doesn’t, you know, that—being that person, for whom a blade of grass doesn’t move without His will—that this would be irrelevant to Him.

We could chalk it up to aprakrita-lila. You know, having the drama and the tension, humanness as it were as an element in divine pastimes to make some drama, some tension, some increased intensity. But Mahaprabhu will remind them, He will say like… When there the… for example, they’re told… Mahaprabhu’s just taking sannyas, He’s in extreme ecstatic state doing kirtan everywhere with everyone, beginning with Keshava Bharati, but including everyone else, everyone He meets. He is always doing kirtan and at some point they [have to right] on the boat in a dangerous area. And so the boat-man, hi is saying like, “Can you keep the kirtan down?” You know. [Laughing]. Because that will… [He’s saying]: “First of all we are in a place where there crocodiles, tigers”. It’s like the 24 Parganas section of Bengal, what’s now known as a… So he saying — the environment is dangerous [to begin] with crocodiles and tigers. But also you’re going to a track pirates and rovers of all. So he’s trying to tell them not to have kirtan.

We could chalk it up to aprākṛta-līlā. You know, having the drama and the tension—humanness, as it were—as an element in divine pastimes; to make some drama, some tension; some increased intensity. But Mahāprabhu will remind them. He will say, like, when there... For example, they’re told, “Mahāprabhu’s just taking sannyas. He’s in extreme, ecstatic state; doing kīrtan everywhere, with everyone.” Beginning with Keśava Bhāratī, but including everyone else; everyone He meets. He is always doing kīrtan. And, at some point, they have to ride on the boat, in a dangerous area. And, so, the boat-man, he's saying, like, “Can you keep the kīrtan down?” You know,[laughing] because, that will... He’s saying, “First of all, we are in a place where there're crocodiles, tigers.”

It’s, like, the 24 Parganas section of Bengal,what’s now known as. So, he's saying—the environment is dangerous, to begin with—crocodiles and tigers. But also, you’re going to attract pirates, and rovers of all sorts. So, he’s trying to tell them, not to have kīrtan. And, Mahāprabhu keeps His wildly ecstatic... the boat is ready to sink. And they’re trying to... The devotees listen to that boat-man and say, “Oh! OK! All right.”
And Mahāprabhu tells them, “What?!” He said, “Can’t you see My sudarśan cakra? Look! Don’t you see sudarśan cakra spinning, always protecting the devotees under all circumstances.” Like in Ambarīṣa-Durvāsā pastimes, and others, saying, “Don’t you see sudarśan? Don’t... Why are you worried? Mukunda, sing!”[laughing]. So, it’s an element in the pastimes of Mahāprabhu; it’s an element in the pastimes of Kṛṣṇa. And we see, it’s an element in the pastimes of the modern day Kṛṣṇa Consciousness movement.

And Mahaprabhu keeps His wildly ecstatic, the boat is ready to sink and they’re trying to… the devotees listen to that boat-man and say, “Oh! Okay, all right”.
And Mahaprabhu tells them, “What!” He said, “Can’t you see My sudarshan chakra? Look! Don’t you see sudarshan chakra spinning, always protecting the devotees in all circumstances?”
Like in Ambarish-Durvasa-pastimes and others saying, “Don’t you see sudarshan? Don’t… Why are you worried? Mukunda, sing!” [Laughing].
So, it’s an element in the pastimes of Mahaprabhu, it’s an element in the pastimes of Krishna. And we see it’s an element in the pastimes of the modern day Krishna-consciousness movement. That the devotees, their faith is tasted in different ways to see, are they…
When Mahaprabhu turns to that group, He says, “What did you bring with you for this tour?” And they all answer, “Nothing. You are our only wealth”. He was very happy to hear that.

That, the devotees, their faith is tested in different ways, to see, are they... When Mahāprabhu turns to that group, He says, “What did you bring with you for this tour?” And they all answer, “Nothing. You are our only wealth.” He was very happy to hear that. They didn’t say, “Oh, I brought a little something, just in case.”[laughing]. No, they said, “We didn’t bring anything; we just with You. You are everything to us.” He was very happy about that. That doesn’t mean, like, you know, we shall not be thoughtful at times. When Nārasiṁha Chaitanya Prabhu was entering Immigration in England, and they said to him, “How do you maintain yourself?” He said, “Begging.” [laughing]. Simple-hearted vaiṣṇava. They didn’t give him a visa. And they said, “In our country, we do not glorify beggars.” [laughing] He said, “By begging.” But, Saraswatī Ṭhākur like the begging of Gauḍīya Maṭh. It’s, as Guru Mahārāj said, “When the devotees ask someone for something, or for donation, or whatever it might be, they're giving that person an opportunity, actually.

They didn’t say, “Oh, I brought a little something just in case”. [Laughing]. No, they said, “We didn’t bring anything. We just with You. You are everything to us”. He was very happy about that. That doesn’t mean like, you know, we shall not be [tact for at] times.
When Nrisimha Chaytanya Prabhu was entering immigration in England and they said to him, “How do you maintain yourself?” He said, “Begging” [Laughing]. Simple-hearted vayshnav. They didn’t give him a visa. And they said, “In our country we do not glorify beggars”. [Laughing]. He said, “By begging”.
But Saraswati Thakur like the begging of Gaudiya Math. It’s… As Guru Maharaj said, “When the devotees ask someone for something or for donation, whatever it might be, that giving that person an opportunity actually. It’s really an opportunity, that is being extended to that person, to come and get some nirguna connection with the service of Mahaprabhu, which is inconceivably wonderful and supremely beneficial for everyone.

It’s really an opportunity, that is being extended to that person, to come and get some nirguṇa connection with the service of Mahāprabhu, which is inconceivably wonderful, and supremely beneficial for everyone. So, whenever our devotees are operating, in special circumstances like that, they get some special grace from the Lord. And it’s an evidence there, and elsewhere—but particularly there.
ananyāś cintayanto māṁ
ye janāḥ paryupāsate
teṣāṁ nityābhiyuktānāṁ
yoga-kṣemaṁ vahāmy aham
(Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā: 9.22)
In the Gītā, where Kṛṣṇa gives His assurance, that, “If My devotees are in need of
something—or, apparently lacking some paraphernalia, facility, whatever it might be—I personally compensate.” And we’ve heard this story, when someone—Prabhupād told us—his name was Arjun Ācārya, some commentary, thought, “That’s not right, that someone interpret, that the Lord will personally do this; that He’ll serve.” He didn’t like that idea, that Kṛṣṇa—and striking it out—that the Lord, will personally bare that burden; carry what's needed.

So whenever our devotees are operating in special circumstances like that, they get some special grace from the Lord. And it’s evidence there and elsewhere, but particularly there.
“ananyas cintayanto mam
ye janah parjupasate
tesam nityabhiyuktanam
yoga-ksemam vahamy aham”
In the Gita, where Krishna gives us assurance, that, “If My devotees are need of something or [apparently] lacking some parafernaliya, facility, whatever it might be, I personally compensate”.
And we’ve heard the story, when someone Prabhu told, his name was Arjun Acharja, some commentary thought: that’s not right, that someone interpretate, that the Lord will personally do this, that He’ll serve, he didn’t like that idea, that Kris… and striking it out, that the Lord[al] personally bare that burden carry, what is needed.

And we’re told: two boy-shop to deliver, I don’t know, what it was, — fire, water — something to his wife. And they were bruised and bitten. And she said:
— Who did this to you?
And they said:
— Your husband.
— What?! He is so cruel!
— Yes, he beat us! He beat us! [When you striking … with this pen], he is beating us.
So you could understand, when Krishna says, “I will personally supply that”. He means — He will personally supply the necessities of His devotees. Goptritve varan. Believe in that! The principle, anga of sharanagati, to orderly offer oneself as… And become dependent upon Krishna and Krishna’s mercy for everything. It’s a whole mark and basis of pure devotion.

And, we were told, two boys show up to deliver... I don’t know, what it was—fire-wood, or something—to his wife. And they're all bruised and beaten. And she said,
“Who did this to you?” And they said, “Your husband.” What?! He's so cruel?! “Yes, he beat us! He beat us! And he's striking us with this pan. He is beating us.” So you could understand when Kṛṣṇa says, “I will personally supply that.” He means—He will personally supply the necessities of His devotees;... goptṛtve varaṇaṁ...(Cc:Madhya 22.100). Believe in that! The principle, aṅga of śaraṇāgati, to utterly offer oneself, and become dependent upon Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa’s mercy for everything. It’s a hallmark, and basis of pure devotion.

So sometimes we don’t know really, substantially, what we’ve come in connection with. Just by it having heard so many things we retain our own modified version of what we think that is. However glorious or wonderful [it’s tell], it’s our own tainted by our own lack of believe, faith full embrace. But not’s to be expected we are knewly recruited section, we can expect that. Sādhau saṅgaḥ svato vare . For our faith will be increased.
Where are this coming from? If you can just move it to an… [what doesn’t]… Come to me! It’s good incense. [Laughing]. If you use it out doors, it’s making the whole area fragrant. You can understand, it’s high quality. Hare Krishna!

So, sometimes we don’t know, really, substantially, what we’ve come in connection with. Despite, having heard so many things, we retain our own modified version, of what we think that is. However glorious, or wonderful, it’s all... it’s our own... tainted by our own lack of believe; faith's full embrace. But, that to be expected; we're in the newly recruited section. We can expect that. sādhau saṅgaḥ svato vare (Cc: Madhya 22.131.). For our faith will be increased. [interruption]
Goswāmī Mahārāj: Where this's coming from?
Devotee: [inaudible]…
Goswāmī Mahārāj: If you can just move it to an... [inaudible] come to me... It’s good incense... [laughing]. If you use it out doors, it’s making the whole area fragrant; you can understand it’s high quality.

So Guru Maharaj told me, the beginning of preaching on his behove in western world, that Shrila Swami Maharaj Prabhupad is no doubtle… how to say… doubtlessly, without a doubt, “Please [was] what you’re doing as I am, my Guru Maharaj, and if you will go on in this way sincerely, then Mahaprabhu will supply all the perefernalia and resources necessary for your seva”. We have to have faith in that.
Yes. Some question?
Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Maharaj, I would like to ask about kirtan.
Goswami Maharaj: About kirtan?
Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Kirtan, yes. Today you met with Abhiram Thakur Prabhu, told him that kirtan was especial today, tonight, before the lecture.
Goswami Maharaj: Yeah! It may be special every night. [Laughing].
Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Yes, but I …
Goswami Maharaj: But I felt something like some extra lift.
Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Yes, you know, I also heard, when he arrived here, couple months ago, he…
Goswami Maharaj: He — who?
Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Abhiram Thakur Prabhu.
Goswami Maharaj: Abhiram Prabhu.
Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Yes.

[GM resume the lecture] Hare Kṛṣṇa! So, Guru Mahārāj told me, “In the beginning of preaching on his behave, in western world, that, Śrīla Swami Mahārāj Prabhupād is, no doubt…” how to say? “Doubtlessly; without a doubt, is pleased with what you’re doing—as I am—My Guru Mahārāj. And, if you will go on in this way, sincerely, then Mahāprabhu will supply all the paraphernalia and resources, necessary for your sevā.” We have to have faith in that.
Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yes. Some question?
Devotee:[Śyāma Vilāsa Prabhu] Mahārāj, I would like to ask about kīrtan.
Goswāmī Mahārāj: About kīrtan?
Devotee: kīrtan, yes. Today you met with Abhirāma Ṭhākur Prabhu... told him that kīrtan was special today... tonight, before the lecture...
Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah! It may be special every night. [laughing].
Devotee: Yes, but I...
Goswāmī Mahārāj: But, I felt something, like some extra lift. [laughing]
Devotee: Yes, I know. I also heard, when he arrived here couple of months ago, he…
Goswāmī Mahārāj: He: who?
Devotee: Abhirāma Ṭhākur Prabhu.
Goswāmī Mahārāj: Abhirāma Prabhu.
Devotee: Yes. In Lahta we usually do program a little bit differently from here. Like, here, we have big kīrtan after Gurudev-parikramā, and kīrtan after Tulsī-parikramā, and also after Hari haraye... Like, twenty minutes, Ānanda Moi can sing. And, I heard, that you said... I heard it from other people, that, to try to do it minimally, if it’s not a special occasion. So, why, if it’s yuga-dharma..?

In Lahta we usually do program a little bit differently from here, like here. We have big kirtan after Gurudev-parikrama and kirtan after Tulasi-parikrama, and also after “Hari haraye…” like twenty minutes Ananda Moi can sing. And I heard, that you said, I heard it from other people, that: try to do it minimally, if it’s not special occasion. So why, if it’s yuga-dharma…
Goswami Maharaj: All it…Because I recall the kirtan as it was in the time of Guru Maharaj. He is my Guru. There is a way they did kirtan at the Math in his presence. So I assume that, that is was pleasing to him. Because I saw, that in his time, if there was something not right, even someone playing the karatals too laud, remember, Guru Maharaj is on his veranda, [here was] the nat-mandir, where the kirtan was. So, it was like 10 meters away, he heard everything. If there was something, he… that disturbed him for whatever reason, he’s sent someone down to correct it. So, there, you know, what rains are like you control a horse, [there were tide rains] on the kirtan.

Goswāmī Mahārāj: Well, it's because I recall the kīrtan as it was in the time of Guru Mahārāj. He is my Guru, right. There is a way they did kīrtan at the Math, in his presence. So, I assume, that, that was pleasing to him. Because, I saw, that in his time, if there was something not right; even someone playing the karatāls too laud... Remember, Guru Mahārāj is on his veranda... [gesture] here was the nat-mandir, where the kīrtan was. So, it was like 10 meters away; he heard everything. If there was something, he… that disturbed him, for whatever reason, he’s sent someone down to correct it. So, there... You know what rains are? Like, you control a horse; there were 'tide rains' on the kīrtan.

So, that’s for me. Sometimes in the aftermath of Guru Maharaj and Gurudevs time I would [hear something say] a kirtan at the Math and look… and that I might think: [“Might not beat until he please Shrila Guru Maharaj]. I look at Shrila Gurudev and he would say, “They are enthusiastic”. [Laughing] Like that.
Like don’t try to correct, just let it go. That’s he would say, “They are enthusiastic”. So in Guru Maharaja’s time they didn’t say “Hari bol!” for a half an our. “Hari bol! Hari bol! Hari bol! Hari bol! Hari bol!” you know. But if someone wants to do that, I’m not gonna stop’em. But that was not [in] “Jaya!” everything. Anything, put “Jaya!” to anything and everything. That was not the fashion. Or to sing “Jaya Guru Maharaj! Jaya Gurudev!” at the end of every single type of kirtan. At the end of like Guru-type — “Gurudev! Kripa bindu diya…” — “Jay Gurudev!” appropriate, but at the end of every single song — not.
But as Gurudev say, “If they are enthusiastic…” We could be doing worst things, [laughing] then having kirtan, extra kirtan.

So, that’s for me... Sometimes in the aftermath of Guru Mahārāj's, and in Gurudev's time, I would hear something, say—a kīrtan at the Math, and look... and, that I might think—might not be entirely pleasing to Śrīla Guru Mahārāj. I look at Śrīla Gurudev, and he would say, “They are enthusiastic.”[laughing] Like that. Like, “Don’t try to correct; just let it go.” That’s what he would say, “They are enthusiastic.” So, in Guru Mahārāja’s time, they didn’t say hari-bale! for a half an our; “ hari-bale! hari-bale! hari-bale! hari-bale! hari-bale! hari-bale!” You know... but, if someone wants to do that, I’m not gonna stop them. [laughing] But that was not... And Jai! everything. Anything— put Jai! to anything and everything; that was not the fashion. Or to sing, ”Jai! Guru Mahārāj! Jai! Gurudev!” at the end of every single type of kīrtan. At the end of, like... the end of 'Guru-type'; Gurudev! Kṛpā-bindu-diyā—Jai! Gurudev!—appropriate; but at the end of every single song, not.

But, as Gurudev say, “If they are enthusiastic...” We could be doing worst things... [laughing] then having kīrtan, extra kīrtan. So... depends on the program. I’m speaking on particular days. On days I’m not speaking, devotees are incline to do more kīrtan; they may. But another thing to be mindful of is... You know, Śrīla Swami Mahārāj—famous... in one of his purports, in Caitanyā-Charitāmṛta—he saw... And, I did it also, as a brahmacārī—we had this kīrtans, so called—where, everyone ended up, look like they went for swim—clothes were all drenched and sweat and, you know... And he said in his purport, right there, he said, “They may increase their bile secretion, but they will not increase their love of Kṛṣṇa.” So, sometimes, as young men, we were using kīrtan, you could say, as sort of 'passion and release'. It’s not described anywhere, that kīrtan should be of that quality. That's just an outlet for passion.

So, it depends on the program. I’m speaking in particular days. Today as I’m not speaking and devotees are incline to do more kirtan — they may. But another thing to be mindful of… is…
You know, Shrila Swami Maharaj, famous in one of his purports in “Chaytanya-charitamritam”, he saw, and I did it also as a brahmachary, we had this kirtans so called. We’re everyone in to the… look like they went for swim, clothes were all dransed and swat and… you know. And he said in his purport, by this he said, “They may increase their bile secretion, but they will not increase their love of Krishna.”
So, sometimes as young men we were using kirtan, you could say, a sort of passion and release. It’s not described anywhere, that kirtan should be of that quality, that it just an outlet for passion. So there are so many things, but as again devotees are enthusiastic, genuinely enthusiastic. Not to make a show, or to play, or… But in service, service to the Holly Name. We have no objection.

So, there are so many things. But, as, again, devotees are enthusiastic, genuinely enthusiastic; not to make a show, or to play, or... but in service—service to the Holly Name. We have no objection. But, I can also understand, that in Guru Mahārāja’s time... that was his time—things were done in particular way. Things, thats now, so many years ago; thirty years ago. And devotees, if they did some particular type of kīrtan in the presence of Śrīla Gurudev, and he didn’t object—I’m not going to object either.
But, sometimes, we should think, “Where this 'something' come from?” We had this experience previously, that singing particular song—why they were sung?
Like, once Prabhupād was in a difficult situation, and his health was not good, so many things. So, devotees thought, his life was in danger, and they ask, “Is there something we can do; something we can sing, or say, for your protection?” So, he told us, “Oh, you can chant these, you know—prayers to Nārasiṁhadev.”

But I can also understand, that Guru Maharaja’s time, that was his time, [things we’re done a particular way], things, that’s now, so many years ago, thirty years ago. And devotees, if they did some particular type of kirtan in the presence of Shrila Gurudev and he didn’t object, I’m not going to object either.
But sometimes we should think, where this something come from? We had this experience previously, that singing particular song. Why they were sung?
Like once Prabhupad was in a difficult situation, and his health was not good, so many things. So, devotees thought, his life was in danger and they ask, “If there something we can do just…, something we can sing or say for your protection?” [So he told], “Oh, you can chant these, you know, prayers to Nrisimhadev.”

So, later we saw that published as “Prayer for the protection of the spiritual master.” You understand, that it became label [that way]. So if there someone joined [не понятно], “This is the prayer for the protection of the spiritual waster.” But it’s, you know, Mahaprabhu’s sang this certain prayers in front of Nrisimha and it’s in “Chaytanya-charitamritam”, and the other part of “Dasa-avatar-stotram” of Jayadev Goswami.
And but Prabhupad said in that sense, “Oh, you can sing this”, but they took it as labeled, now part of our tradition, — “The prayer for the protection of the spiritual master”. And then it became song at the end of every arati, that that must be there, find it must be at picture in the altar of Nrisimhadev.
When actually that may [of] just sort of inadvertently become a tradition. So if certain things inadvertently become tradition, than who knows what it would be like in, you know, generation after generation.

So, later we saw that published, as “Prayer for the protection of the Spiritual Master.” You understand, that it became labeled that way. So, if then someone joined in,
they've been told, “This is the prayer for the protection of the spiritual master.” But, it’s, you know... Mahāprabhu’s saying this certain prayers in front of Nārasiṁha, and it’s in Caitanya-Charitāmṛta, and the other part of Dāsa-avatāra-stotraṁ, of Jayadev Goswāmī.
And... but Prabhupād, said in this sense, “Oh, you can sing this.” But they took it, as labeled—now, part of our tradition: “The prayer for the protection of the Spiritual Master.” And then, it became song at the end of every ārati; that, that must be there. And, there must be a picture on the altar, of Nārasiṁhadev. When, actually, that may of, just sort of—inadvertently—become a tradition. So, if certain things 'inadvertently' become a tradition, than, who knows, what it would be like, in, you know—generation after generation.

But so, we should be, when I [come to this things], I think: “[Air on the side of coushen], be more conservative, than introducing things or making [assumptions] about it.
But as I said, this particular situation, what was excepted in the time in the presence of Shrila Gurudev, he didn’t object to — I don’t object to it.
But if you listen to him sing, than you’ll be on solid ground. If you sing the melody he sang, the way he conducted the songs or the kirtans.
We told everything “adou arpita pascad krieta”. Shridhar Swami, the famous commentary of “Srimad-bhagavatam” says, “For something to qualify as devotion, beginning and middle, and end — it’s for Krishna, and offering to Krishna”. So we can think about that.
You know this is a level of enthusiasm that is appreciable and then there’s just going wild, which starts getting in to a gray area of are we using this to serve some lower purpose, instead of offering ourselves in service of a higher purpose. Someone can be a thoughtful about that.
There is some other question?

But... so, we should be, when I come to this things, I think, “Err on the
side of caution; be more conservative, than introducing things, or making assumptions
about it.” But as I said, in this particular situation, what was accepted in the time, in the presence of Śrīla Gurudev—he didn’t object to—I don’t object to it. But, if you listen to him sing, than you’ll be on solid ground. If you sing the melody he sang, the way he conducted the songs or the kīrtans. We're told everything; sā carpitāiva satī yadi kriyeta, na tu kṛta satī paścād arpyeta. Śrīdhar Swāmī, the famous commentary on Bhāgavatam says, “For something to qualify as devotion—beginning, and middle, and end—it’s for Kṛṣṇa, and offering to Kṛṣṇa.” So, we can think about that. You know, there's level of enthusiasm that is appreciable, and then, there’s just going wild, which starts getting in to gray area of—are we using this to serve some lower purpose—instead of offering ourselves in service of a higher purpose. Someone can be a little thoughtful about that.
There's some other question?

Shyam Vilas Prabhu: Maharaj, what did you mean saying “they didn’t say ‘Jay!’ to everything”, when you described in the beginning of your answer?
Goswami Maharaj: I’m saying it’s not a fashion. I’m giving an example. In Guru Maharaja’s time, (imagine!), in his Math they weren’t singing “Jaya Guru Maharaj!” At the end of “Kripa bindu diya” they would sing “Jaya Gurudev!” That came later. In his lifetime they weren’t singing “Jaya Guru Maharaj!” at his own Math. So we shall give “Jay!” to the vayshnavas.
Are you asking me a question, I’m giving you an answer. So, [are we to sum]: in Guru Maharaja’s time he is upstairs, you know, ten meters away from the nut-mandir. Does he know how to do kirtan properly or not? The Gardian of Devotion, the Bhakti Raksak, the holder, you know, Saraswati Thakur’s vois, does hi understand, what’s a proper way to do sing and have kirtan or not?

Devotee:[Śyāma Vilāsa Prabhu] Mahārāj, what did you mean, saying “They didn’t say ‘Jai!’ to everything”, when you described in the beginning of your answer?
Goswāmī Mahārāj: I’m saying, it’s not a fashion. I’m giving an example. In Guru Mahārāja’s time, imagine, in his Math, they weren’t singing, Jai! Guru Mahārāj! At the end of Kṛpā-bindu-diyā, they would sing, Jai! Gurudev. That came later. In his lifetime they weren’t singing Jai! Guru Mahārāj! at his own Math. So, we shall give, “Jai!” to the Vaiṣṇava. You're asking me a question; I’m giving you an answer. So, are we to sume: in Guru Mahārāja’s time, he is upstairs, you know, 10 meters away from the nat-mandir. Does he know, how to do kīrtan properly, or not? The Guardian of Devotion, the Bhakti Rakṣak, the holder... you know—Saraswatī Ṭhākur’s voice. Does hi understand, what’s a proper way to do singing and have kīrtan, or not?

But it’s 30 years later and they are enthusiastic. [Laughing].
So don’t think I’m telling people not to be enthusiastic. [Laughing]. But just, with some dignity, enthusiasm with some dignity. Just whatever is going on that’s no need to change it. Put it that way. I’m not the satisfied, neither is Avadhut Maharaj.
Avadhut Maharaj understand, sometimes like in festival time to [amp] things up a little bit. There’s many people have come, he’s cleverly t… He wants to engage [gets] all the people involved.
So he is adapted particular strategy to do, has some purpose.

But, it’s 30 years later, and they are enthusiastic.[laughing]. So, don’t think, I’m telling people not to be enthusiastic.[laughing]. But just—with some dignity; enthusiasm, with some dignity. Just, whatever is going on, that’s no need to change it.
Put it that way. I’m not dissatisfied; neither is Avadhūt Mahārāj. Avadhūt Mahārāj understand. Sometimes, like in festival time, to amp things up a little bit... There’s many people have come. He’s cleverly trying... he wants to engage, get all the people involved. So, he's adapted particular strategy to do this; has some purpose.

Once some devotee, who could read sanskrit and bengaly, he was reading all these books, he was telling about apabram-sikh and upa-sikh, and different, you know, sphota-vad — all this different descriptions about taking the name of Krishna. You can chant aloud japa, softly, aspirated, manasik (mental) — many different ways. And he asked Guru Maharaj, “Which way is the best?” And Guru Maharaj [quoted] the six canto of the Bhagavatam: “Vaykuntha nama graham nam.” He said, “It must have some spiritual character. It’s not that loud, soft, medium, aspirated, that one of those is the best. It must have some spiritual quality to it.” He said, “That, what is important.”
So in the kirtan also: if it’s enthusiastic, loud, longer, shorter, — what is the quality of it — is the most important thing.
So, we also understand in Saint-Petersburg people are coming [] program [and we can a lot of people come]. And they come — we want to have kirtan probably longer. So, not everyone comes at the same time. So, that they get some opportunity to participate in the kirtan.

Once, some devotee, who could read Sanskrit and Bengali. He was reading all these books, he was talking about apabhraṃśik and upāsik, and different, you know, sphotavad and this... and all this different descriptions, about taking the name of Kṛṣṇa. You can chant aloud... japa; softly, aspirated, manasik-mental; many different ways.
And, he asked Guru Mahārāj, “Which way is the best?” And Guru Mahārāj quoted the
six canto of the Bhāgavatam; vaikuṇṭha-nāma-grahaṇaṁ...(SB:6.2.33) He said, “It must have some spiritual character. It’s not that: loud, soft, medium, aspirated—that one of those is the best. It must have some spiritual quality to it.” He said. “That, what's important.”

So, in the kīrtan also; if it’s: enthusiastic, loud, longer, shorter—what is the quality of it, is the most important thing. So, we also understand, in Saint-Petersburg people are coming... We've program during the week, and a lot of people come. When they come, we want to have kīrtan probably longer. So, not everyone comes at the same time. So, that they can get some opportunity to participate in the kīrtan. But we see, there are places in India, where they boast of having '24 hour' kīrtan. What is the quality of that kīrtan?

But we see, there are places in India, where they boast of having twenty for our kirtan. What is the quality of that kirtan? We can understand, what it’s quality by how it’s described: twenty four our kirtan. So it special quality is it’s longevity, that it goes on all day and night. So the emphasis is not on the quality of it, but on the quantity of it. They are boasting it, “We do this all day and night. We’ll chant a greater quantity and that’s how we’ll get quality”. That’s one of the floors of the pracrita-sahajaism.
One devotee [have felt pray to that told] Shrila Prabhupad Swami Maharaj, “Haridas Thakur is the namacharya”. And these were his exact words. He didn’t say, “We must follow him.” Interestingly, these were exact what’s he said, “We must imitate him. And if we imitate him and chant three lakhs of Krishna-nam, three hundred thousands of names, Krishna must give us prem.”

We can understand, what it’s quality is, by how it’s described—'24 hour' kīrtan. So, it's special quality is, it’s longevity—that it goes on, all day and night. So, the emphasis is not on the quality of it, but on the quantity of it. They are boasting it, “We do this all day and night! We've chanted a greater quantity, and that’s how we’ll get quality.” That’s one of the flaws of the prākṛta-sahajiism. One devotee fell pray to that, and told Śrīla Prabhupād Swami Mahārāj, “Haridas Ṭhākur is the nāma-ācārya.” And these were his exact words. He didn’t say, “We must follow him.” Interestingly, these were his exact words; he said, “We must imitate him. And, if we imitate him, and chant three lakhs of kṛṣṇa-nāma—three hundred thousands of names—Kṛṣṇa must give us prem.”

So he said, “I’m asking your blessings, that I can find a real Guru.” He’s asking Prabhupad, “Please, give Your Blessings, that I can find a real connection!” [Well] they’ll tell me to chant one hundred thousand of names or three hundred thousand, then Krishna must give me a prem”. The quality of vay… it’s not an issue. Just when you achieve this quantity, then you get Krishna-prem! How foolish!
Sometimes Mahaprabhu cannot say one name. Why? He is Krishna-prem personified, He can’t chant one… He… “Jag-ga” — can’t say “Jagannath”. What is His problem?
Rupa Goswami saying, “What there is in one name?” The sweet “krisneti varna dvayi”, you know, “karna-krodha-kadambini ghatayate karnarbudhebhyah spriham.” You want millions of tangs, millions of ears to capture the sweetness of that sound.

So, he said, “I’m asking your blessings, that I can find a real Guru.” He’s asking Prabhupād, “Please, give your blessings, that I can find a real connection—where they'll tell me to chant one hundred thousand of names, or three hundred thousand—then Kṛṣṇa must give me a prem.” The quality of that is not an issue. Just when you achieve this quantity—then you get kṛṣṇa-prem. How foolish! Sometimes Mahāprabhu cannot say one name. Why? He is kṛṣṇa-prem personified—He can’t chant one… He, “Jagga...” Can’t say, “Jagannāth.” What is His problem? RūpaGoswāmī's saying, “What there is—in one name?” The sweet; kṛṣṇeti varṇa-dvayī...(Vm: 1.15.1), you know; karṇa-kroḍa-kaḍambinī ghaṭayate karṇārbudebhyaḥ spṛhām...(Vm: 1.15.1). “You want millions of tonques, millions of ears, to capture the sweetness of that sound.”

So, we want to serve the Holy Name, we not trying to squeeze something out of Holy Name for our lower purpose. But we’re trying to offer ourselves and our energy in the service of the… purpose of the Holy Name.
If sometime someone came to Guru Maharaj and say, “Oh, such and such devotee, he leads very nice kirtan” or something. Guru Maharaj would be worried about that person. Oh, so he can understand: some kind of a show is going on.
Once there praising one devotee for his kirtan, one of the devotees of the Math, Guru Maharaj said, if someone said: “His kirtan is so sweet!” Guru Maharaj said: “His argument is sweeter.” What did that mean? “His argument is sweeter.”

So, we want to serve the Holy Name. We're not trying to squeeze something out of the Holy Name, for our lower purpose. But we’re trying to offer ourselves, and our energy in the service of the... purpose of the Holy Name. If, sometime, someone came to Guru Mahārāj and say, “Oh, such and such devotee, he leads very nice kīrtan” or something; Guru Mahārāj would be worried about that person. “Oh...” So, he can understand, “Some kind of a show is going on.” Once, they're praising one devotee for his kīrtan, one of the devotees at the Math—Guru Mahārāj said... If someone says, “His kīrtan is so sweet!” Guru Mahārāj said, “His argument is sweeter.” What did that mean? “His argument is sweeter.”

What did Saraswati Thakur said, “I’m not interested to hear…” Guru Maharaj is our Guru of the Chaytanya Saraswat Math, what comes down… What is, you know, most famous event. If Saraswati Thakur stopping someone from singing, who is a known kirtaniya, and Saraswati Thakur saying, “I’m not interested to hear sweet tune.”
That is our Guru Maharaj. You must have heard some tape of him singing. We have some. You can hear them sometimes.
I’m saying, for safest we hear, there’re tapes of Gurudev, many of Gurudev’s singing, arati-song, this song, that — many things. To follow his way of doing that is safest. And then you can understand: if there were things, that are current or invoke, that he doesn’t do, they’ve come from somewhere else, they’ve been introduced by others, someone other, than Shrila Gurudev or Shrila Guru Maharaj.

What did Saraswatī Ṭhākur said, “I’m not interested to hear...” Guru Mahārāj is our Guru of the Caitanya Saraswat Math. What comes down to... What is, you know, most famous event? If Saraswatī Ṭhākur stopping someone from singing, who is a known kīrtaniya, and Saraswatī Ṭhākur saying, “I’m not interested to hear sweet tune”—That is our Guru Mahārāj. You must have heard, some tape, of him singing. We have some. You can hear them sometimes. I’m saying, for safest, we hear, there're tapes of Gurudev; many of Gurudev's singing: ārati-song, this song, that song, many things. To follow his way of doing that, is safest. And then, you can understand—if there are things, that are current or in vogue, that he doesn’t do—they’ve come from somewhere else. They’ve been introduced by others; someone other, than Śrīla Gurudev or Śrīla Guru Mahārāj.

But as I said, Shrila Gurudev, he didn’t make an issue out of it. He didn’t want to dump in the enthusiasm of devotees. He didn’t see it as being harmful. But he knows, if Guru Maharaj was alive, he might have to be told to stop it, cause Guru Maharaj has a different level of sensitivity.
So, all of these things have to be taken in the consideration, in time, place and circumstance. Sometimes any attempt, that someone makes, we’re happy about that.
Like when the pe… When the child is trying to say [their] first words or [their humming saying]. It they’re might be a little nonsense the…, it’s… they’re to be encouraged. They’re in the child stage, they’re being encouraged. But can’t ever use that [an] excuse, forever, in the child stage. At some point they should be some maturity. And with that comes a little refinement, dignity.

But as I said, Śrīla Gurudev, he didn’t make an issue out of it. He didn’t want to dump in the enthusiasm of devotees. He didn’t see it as being harmful. But he knows, and if Guru Mahārāj was alive, he might have to be told, to stop it, as Guru Mahārāj has a different level of sensitivity. So, all of these things have to be taken in the consideration—a time, place and circumstance. Sometimes, any attempt that someone makes—we’re happy about that. Like, when the parent... When the child is trying to say their first words or their humming, or singing... there might be a little nonsense, they... it’s... they’re to be encouraged. They’re in the child-stage; they’re being encouraged. But, can’t ever use that as an excuse, forever, in the child-stage. At some point there should be some maturity. And with that comes a little refinement, dignity.

Is this clock off by an hour?
Devotee: Yes, yes.
Goswami Maharaj: Yeah, I mean just leave it. So it’s off by one hour or it’s off by a year or…
Devotee: No, … twenty-thirteen.
Goswami Maharaj: Ok. [The year 20.13 or 8.13]?
Devotee: [8.13]
Goswami Maharaj: Oh, o’key. It’s when I make sure I’m close. And it’s 2015, when I… [laughing] When I [want ask] checked [laughing]. Understand. O’key. Military time.

Is this clock off by an hour?
Devotee: Yes, yes...[inaudible]
Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah, I mean, just leave it. So it’s off by one hour or it’s off by a year or…
Devotee: No... it's 20:13.
Goswāmī Mahārāj: OK, the year 2013?.. or 8:13?
Devotee: 8:13.
Goswāmī Mahārāj: Oh, OK... Just want to make sure, I’m close... It’s 2015, you know... [laughing] when I last checked... [laughing] Understand; OK, military time.

I’ve told many times, when I met Krishnadas Babaji Maharaj, when searching for him, I’d met him before, but the time I searched him out at Chaytanya Saraswat Math and I told him or I told Guru Maharaj actually. And that, later that meeting that… the way of doing the kirtan was vanishing perhaps with the disciples of Saraswati Thakur. So there maybe some value to making somebody’s recordings. But when Babaji Maharaj saw the tape recorder, I put there, and he was a little disturbed and he said, “The important thing is that you chant Hare Krishna!” Like there is no substitute for that. There is no substitute. In devotion you can have a substitute: a family member, a child [не понятно], who can do it for you. So we’re asked to chant.
And under, you know, from the heard under the influence of Guru and vayshnav.

I’ve told many times, when I met Kṛṣṇadas Bābājī Mahārāj—when searching for him... I’d met him before, but, the time I searched him out at Caitanya Saraswat Math, and I told him... or I told Guru Mahārāj, actually. And, that—later, on that meeting— that, the way of doing the kīrtan was vanishing, perhaps, with the disciples of Saraswatī Ṭhākur. So, there maybe some value to making some of his recordings. But, when Bābājī Mahārāj saw the tape recorder I put there, he was a little disturbed, and he said, “The important thing is, that you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa!” Like, there is no substitute for that. There is no substitute, in devotion—you cant have a substitute—a family member, a child, or spouse, who can do it for you. So we’re asked to chant, and under, you know... from the heart—under the influence of Guru and Vaiṣṇava.

But we believe, that the suddha-nam is the domain of the Guru-varga. Guru Maharaj, Gurudev’s idea is that Guru Maharaj, he is can take suddha-nam, Krishna-nam and we’re serving him. He is serving him and leading the group of servitors. It will be our best and we’ll take the minimum. Our best interest — to serve the higher vayshnava. That’s the system, the Gaudia system.
Still I think the kirtan this evening was nice, [laughing], and had some brightness, some… the right amount of enthusiasm. [Laughing].
It’s not a contest. We’ve seeing, sometimes [we’re in] Bhaktivinod Thakur’s place svananda sukhada kunja and so many Gaudia Maths had come and our Math. And they singing. And each Math naturally they’re to sing them song, they give like their best singer, best mridanga-player.

But, we believe, that the śuddha-nāma is the domain of the guru-varga. Guru Mahārāj... Gurudev’s idea is, that Guru Mahārāj, he is can take śuddha-nāma; kṛṣṇa-nam and we’re serving him. He is serving him, and leading the group of servitors. It will be our best... and we’ll take the minimum—our best interest to serve the higher Vaiṣṇava— that’s the system, the Gaudia system. Still, I think the kīrtan this evening was nice...[laughing] and had some brightness, some… the right amount of enthusiasm. [laughing].
It’s not a contest. We’ve seen, sometimes, when at Bhaktivinod Ṭhākur’s place, Svānanda Sukhadā Kuñja, and so many Gaudia Maths had come, and our Math; and they singing. And each Math, naturally, they’re to sing they song, they give, like—their best singer, best mṛdaṅga player.

But after wile I start to [think]: look like a little bit of a competition. Who can sustain a note long, who can sing “Gurudev”, hold it the longest? And then I saw, “What is this?” Our idea is not to draw attention to the individual’s skills, but to conduct to pleasing kirtan for the Lord and His devotees.
Any other question?
Dinashraya Prabhu: Maharaj, Narottam Prabhu and Hildo [Osvaldo]. And you their dandavat-pranams, they send.
Goswami Maharaj: Hare Krishna.
Dinashraya Prabhu: This question from Gupta Govardhan, little simple-hearted question, it about Krishna-lila. It’s said in our scriptures, that Krishna-lila is eternal. And when Krishna finished His lila in one universe, then He moves into another universe.
Goswami Maharaj: Yes.

But after wile, I start to think, “It look like a little bit of a competition.” Who can sustain a note long; who can sing Gurudev—hold it the longest. And, then I saw, “What is this?” Our idea, is not to draw the attention to the individual’s skills, but to conduct the pleasing kīrtan for the Lord and His devotees.[long pause] Any other question?
Devotee: From Narottam Prabhu and Hilda Orayto, and their daṇḍavat-praṇams they send.
Goswāmī Mahārāj: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Devotee: So, there's question from Gupta Govardhan—little, simple-hearted question. It's about kṛṣṇa-līlā. It’s said in our scriptures, that kṛṣṇa-līlā is eternal. And, when Kṛṣṇa finished His līlā in one universe, then He moves into another universe.
Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yes.

Dinashraya Prabhu: And also it said in the scriptures, that there are limitless and limitless universes.
Goswami Maharaj: Yes.
Dinashraya Prabhu: And the entire material creation. So the question: when Lord enjoy in His own spiritual world, if He have to move from one universe to another?
Goswami Maharaj: I think that I get the idea. [mou] It’s mysterious, it’s mystical. It’s generally we take it there is Goloka Vrindavan, Gokula Vrindavan. So some, and by “some” I mean spiritual expert, they have the opinion, that Goloka Vrindavan is the original, and then Gokula — the prapanca-lila, that means the pastimes in this world or like a satellite of that and that going through the material world from universe to universe till the windup of the universe.

Devotee: And, also it said in the scriptures, that there are limitless and limitless universes...
Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yes.
Devotee: … in the entire material creation. So the question is, “When Lord enjoy in His own spiritual world, if He have to move from one universe to another?”
Goswāmī Mahārāj: [laughing] I think, that I get the idea. Well, It’s mysterious; it’s mystical. As, generally, we take it—there's Goloka Vṛndāvan; Gokula Vṛndāvan. So some—and by 'some', I mean, spiritual experts—they have the opinion, that Goloka Vṛndāvan is the original, and then, Gokula; the prapañca-līlā—that means, the pastimes in this world, or, like a satellite of that. And, that's going through the material world, from universe to universe; till the windup of the universe.

But Guru Maharaj and [have] Bhaktivinod Thakur, Jiva Goswami to present another concept. In “Brahma-samhita” it’s hinted at and there some corroborating evidence in ‘Garga-samhita”, that when Krishna decides to bring His pastimes, the prapanca-lila from the spiritual world in to the material world so-called. That when He presents this idea to Shrimati Radharani, that She says, “I will only go if we take all of our paraphernalia with us.”
She doesn’t wanna replica or something similar, but She saying, “The Jamuna, Vrinda… — everything or I’m not going.” [Laughing]. And She says it twice to underscore, that She is very serious. “Have to bring Jamuna, Vrinda… — everything. What we have, we take all of these with us and descend there”.

But, Guru Mahārāj and... get Bhaktivinod Ṭhākur, Jiva Goswāmī, to present another concept. In the Brahma-saṁhitā is hinted that. And, there's some corroborating evidence in Garga-saṁhitā, that, when Kṛṣṇa decides to bring His pastimes—the prapañca-līlā—from the spiritual world, in to the material world, so-called—that, when He presents this idea to Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī, that She says, “I will only go, if we take all of our paraphernalia with us.” She doesn’t wanna replica, or something similar, but She's saying, “The Yamunā, Vṛndāvan—everything! Or, “I’m not going.” [laughing]. And She says it twice, to underscore that She is very serious. “Have to bring Yamunā, Vṛndāvan; everything what we have—we take all of these with us—and descend there.”

So another way of seeing it is that mysteriously, mystically and for the benefit of everyone the original is brought in to this world. And what remains behind Goloka is like a satellite, extension of the original. Such things are possible with Krishna. And that makes the prapanca-lila all the more interesting and dramatic, because we can understand — in the spiritual world there are no condition souls.
So, all those pastimes there, they are all… Every aspect of it is conducted by liberated souls. Where is when the Lord brings His a bow down here [in this place, His pastimes here]. The infinite in Guru Maharaja’s words actually mixing with the finite as if He is one of them.
And that we talked about in the beginning, and same thing in Mahaprabhu’s pastimes. There are, I mean, to be blunt they’re mundane people, who come in connection with Mahaprabhu or Krishna. And according to their capacity they either appreciate, do not appreciate — the gradations of appreciation may be there, how He is viewed.

So, another way of seeing it, is, that, mysteriously, mystically and for the benefit of everyone—the 'original' is brought in to this world. And what remains behind—Goloka's like a satellite—extension of the 'original'. Such things are possible with Kṛṣṇa. And that makes the prapañca-līlā all the more interesting and dramatic. Because, we can understand—in the spiritual world, there are no condition souls. So, all those pastimes there, their all—every aspect of it—is conducted by liberated souls. Where's, when the Lord brings His abode down here, and display His pastimes here—the Infinite in Guru Mahārāja’s words—actually, mixing with the finite, as if He's one of them. And that we talked about, in the beginning; and same thing, in Mahāprabhu’s pastimes.

There are... I mean, to be blunt—they’re mundane people, who come in connection with Mahāprabhu or Kṛṣṇa. And, according to their capacity—they either appreciate; do not appreciate—the gradations of appreciation may be there, how He is viewed. As, in a devī-bhāv, in the house of Candraśekhara Ācārya. According to the inner awakening, development of... Now, those are devotees, not none-devotees—but, still, there is gradation, according to the inner awakening. So, some are seeing Durgā Devī, some are seeing Caṇḍi; some seeing: Lakṣmī, Rukmiṇī, Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī—all simultaneously— they’re seeing according to the inner awakening; inner spiritual development. So, then we can say, “Well, the material world has some special pastimes for Kṛṣṇa.” It’s not just, “Liberate all this condition souls, get it over with, and then we'll only have a spiritual world.” That’s not described anywhere. There’s a time: the mahā-pralaya; and then, ther's suṣupti; this 'deep-like-sleeping' stage. Whatever condition souls didn’t make it, they're in a sleeping condition, within Mahāviṣṇu. And, for some, they come out again—get these opportunities again.

As in a Devi-bhav in the house of Chandrashekhar Acharja according to the inner awakenment, development of those, now these are devotees not… none devotees. But still there is gradation according to the inner awakenment. So some are seeing Durga Devi, some are seeing Chandi, some seeing Lakshmi, Rukmini, Shrimati Radharani. All simultaneously they’re seeing according to the inner awakenment, inner spiritual development.
So, then we can say, [will] the material world has some special pastimes for Krishna. It’s not just liberate all this condition souls, get it over with, then only have a spiritual world. That’s not described anywhere. There’s a time the mahapralaya […in] is sushukti this deep like sleeping stage, whatever condition souls didn’t make it, they inner in a sleeping condition within Mahavishnu. And [just] they come out again, get these opportunities again.

But brahmajyoti, jivas are… it’s a growing thing, somorbing generated. Zero plus zero equal zero. Zero time zero equal zero. It’s always Krishna and only Krishna, Radha-Krishna and there extensions, expansions and entourage. But this is growing, living, growing and dynamic.
So that means that repeatedly there are innumerable opportunities for condition souls to come in connection with the Lord and his pastimes, His avatars, incarnations, divine abode, associates etcetera.
So it’s hopeful, scenario for all of us.
Does that answer the question?
Dinashraya Prabhu: Yes.
Goswami Maharaj: [Laughing]

But, brahma jyoti—jīvas, are… it’s a growing thing; some more being generated. Zero plus zero, equal zero. Zero time zero, equal zero. It’s always Kṛṣṇa, and only Kṛṣṇa; Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, and their extensions, expansions and entourage. But, this is growing, living; growing and dynamic. So, that means, that repeatedly, there are innumerable opportunities for condition souls to come in connection with the Lord, and his pastimes; His avatars, incarnations, divine abode, associates, etc.... So, it’s hopeful, scenario for all of us. Does that answer the question?
Devotee: Yes.
Goswāmī Mahārāj: [laughing]

Dinashraya Prabhu: So, from Nrisimha Chaytanya Prabhu (USA): “Pleas except my dandavat, dear Maharaj.
Base on the Bhagavatam verse that says: ‘sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje’, it use the criteria of what is right or what is wrong in this world, what is religion and irreligion. And ultimately nothing seems perfect or permanent other then thinks which are pleasing to the Lord. But specific name used is “Adhoksaja”, meaning beyond all the approach or our senses and faculties.
Goswami Maharaj: Yeah.
Dinashraya Prabhu: So, how do we come to terms with the fact that the value of correctness of what is right or wrong of anything is dependent upon something which transcend all our abilities to comprehend. So…
Goswami Maharaj: That means, points to amnay Revealed Truth and agents of Revealed Truth, the devotees. The longing short of is it the only way we can have any type of certainty and terms of pleasing Krishna is through His agents.

Devotee: So, from Nārasiṁha Caitanya Prabhu, USA, “Pleas except my dandavat, dear Mahārāj. Based on Bhāgavatam verse that says; sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje...(SB:1.2.6). It use the criteria of what is right or what is wrong in this world; what is religion and irreligion. And, ultimately nothing seems perfect or permanent, other then things, which are pleasing to the Lord. But specific name used there, is; adhokṣaje—meaning: beyond all the approach of our senses and faculties...
Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah.
Devotee: So, how do we come to terms with the fact, that the value of correctness of what is right or wrong of anything, is dependent upon something, which transcend all our abilities to comprehend. So…
Goswāmī Mahārāj: That means, points to āmnāya—revealed truth, and agents of revealed truth—the devotees. The long and short of it, is, the only way we can have any type of certainty, in terms of pleasing Kṛṣṇa, is through His agents.

The statements of the scriptures are there, but more specifically His agents, His devotees. Because in the statements of the scripture from the mouth of Krishna comes the importance of having of serving His devotees and having substantial relationship with them as a means to please Him.
aham bhakta paradhino
hy asvatantra iva dvija
So He is apparently independent, indifferent, aloof — all this things. But in the presence of devotion it’s as if He looses His independence. That’s the power of devotion, which is in the heart of genuine devotees. Krishna comes under their control. The Supreme Controller is under their control.
So that means Adhoksaja — beyond the grasp of the mind, senses, intellect. But the 87 chapter “Shrimad-Bhagavatam”, 10th canto, Veda-stuti prayers of the personified Vedas. Deals with some of this.

The statements of the scriptures are there, but more specifically His agents, His devotees. Because, in the statements of the scripture—from the mouth of Kṛṣṇa comes the importance of having... of serving His devotees, and having substantial relationship with them, as a means to please Him. Ahaṁ bhakta-parādhīno hy asvatantra iva dvija...(SB: 9.4.63). So, He is apparently independent, indifferent, aloof—all this things—but in the presence of devotion, it’s, as if He looses His independence. That’s the power of devotion, which is in the heart of genuine devotees. Kṛṣṇa comes under their control. The Supreme Controller, is under their control. So, that means, as he said; adhokṣaja—beyond the grasp of the mind, senses, intellect. But, the 87 chapter, Śrīmad Bhāgavatam, tenth canto: veda-stuti prayers of the personified Vedas, deals with some of this things.

Saying, that when it’s mention that, if the Vedas they’re sounds, and He vibrate sounds like with your tong, your voice bugs, the ether etcetera. That’s [does] are all mundane things. How can it indicate or generate anything spiritual by using material. I think that’s kind of similar to this question. And one of the answers, given there is that this is really the purpose of all of this things, of having senses, mind, intelligence. You know hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling, feeling, but of another type.
So what do we hear — Rupa Goswami and according Narada,
sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam
hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate
Who is Adhoksaja? Another one and His name is Hrisikesh. And saying: and if you saturate your senses under the guidance of sadhu, shastra, Guru and vayshnav in service, than svayam eva sphuraty adah, sevon mukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah. He make [and sent] to reveal Himself. And what He reveals is still beyond the mundane mind, intellect and senses, but not the spiritual senses.

Saying, that, when it’s mention, that, if the Vedas, they’re sounds—and you vibrate sounds, like—with your tongue, your voice bugs, the ether, etc.... That’s... this are all mundane things; how can it indicate, or generate anything 'spiritual', by using 'material'. I think, that’s kind of similar to this question. And, one of the answers given there, is, that this is really the purpose of all of this things—of having senses, mind, intelligence, you know: hearing, seeing, tasting, touching, smelling, feeling—but of another type. So what do we hear? Rūpa Goswāmī; and according Nārada;
sarvopādhi-vinirmuktaṁ
tat-paratvena nirmalam
hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśasevanaṁ
bhaktir ucyate
(Śrī Chaitanya-charitāmṛta: Madhya 19.170)
Who is adhokṣaja? Another one of His names is Hṛṣīkeśa. He's saying, “And, if you can saturate your senses, under the guidance of sādhu, śāstra, guru, and vaiṣṇav—in service, than; svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ... sevonmukhe hi jihvādau, svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ (Brs:1.2.234), He may consent to reveal Himself. And, what He reveals, is still beyond the mundane mind, intellect and senses—but not the spiritual senses.

Chakravarti Thakur says in one place: another meaning of adha aksaja is like “close your eyes”. Krishna tells to Braja-gopies, [who are] feeling separation from Him, at a letter from Uddhava: “Close your eyes and think of Me and I will appear there”. [Laughing]. And He does. But we like it. Prefer, we’re… Who is the object of the, you know, paramatma-yogis, is the object of their hearts, is walking the streets of Navadvip or Vrindavan.
Adha, aksaja is a reference to mundane sense experience is… Adha aksaja is suppressed, when He descends, doesn’t mean: “Forget it! He can’t be seen. He can’t be seen and heard experiencing, you know, just forget it!” No. It’s saying: when He reveals Himself to you, all the mundane experience will be suppressed at that time. That’s adha aksaja, Adhoksaja.

Cakravartī Ṭhākur says, in one place, “Another meaning of adha-akṣaja is, like: close your eyes.” Kṛṣṇa tells to vraja-gopīs, who are feeling separation from Him, getting letter from Uddhava, “Close your eyes and think of Me, and I will appear there.” [laughing] And He does. But, we like it... prefer, we’re… Who is the object of the paramātmā yogīs, is the object of their hearts—is walking the streets of Navadwip or Vṛndāvan. Adha-akṣaja is a reference to mundane sense experience; adha-akṣaja is suppressed, when He descends. Doesn’t mean, “Forget it!” He can’t be seen; He can’t be seen, heard, experienced, you know, “Just forget it!” No. It’s saying, “When He reveals Himself to you, all the mundane experience will be suppressed at that time. That’s
adha-akṣaja; adhokṣaja.

But there will be seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, feeling — all of this things. But it wouldn’t be through gloves, being enveloped in a layer — mind, intellect, ego.
bhumir apo ‘nalo vayuh
kham mano buddhir eva ca
ahankara…
What is that…?
Apani-pado javano grahita
He has no legs, no eyes, no ears, but He is fast, can see everything and can hear everything. Means to say: no mundane senses.
srutva gunan bhuvana-sundara srnvatam te
nirvisa karna-vivarair harato ‘nga-tapam
rupam drsam drsimatam akhilartha-labham
tvayi acyutavisati cittam apatrapam me
Rukmini says: “When I heard about You, I could understand: I would see Your form within me, that You are the most beautiful thing in the world, Bhuvana Sundar”. That’s what it means, actually. But not of this world. [You saying]: “the most beautiful thing in the world” means Adhoksaja really.

But, there will be seeing, hearing, tasting, touching, smelling, feeling — all of this things. But it wouldn’t be through gloves; being enveloped in a layer: mind, intellect, ego; bhūmir āpo ’nalo vāyuḥ khaṁ mano buddhir eva caahaṅkāra... (SB: 7.4). What's that?... apāṇi-pādo javano grahītā... (Su: 3.19). He has no legs, no eyes, no ears, but He is fast, can see everything, and can hear everything; means to say: no mundane senses.
śrutvā guṇān bhuvana-sundara śṛṇvatāṁ te
nirviśya karṇa-vivarair harato ’ṅga-tāpam
rūpaṁ dṛśāṁ dṛśimatām akhilārtha-lābhaṁ
tvayy acyutāviśati cittam apatrapaṁ me
(Śrīmad Bhāgavatam: 10.52.37)
Rukmiṇī says, “When I heard about You, I could understand, I would see Your form within me; that You are the most beautiful thing in the world, bhuvana sundar.” That’s what it means, actually—but not of this world. [chuckle] She's saying, “You're the most beautiful thing in the world.” Means, adhokṣaja, really.

[You] said: “And now I understand, why we have eyes, what they’re meant for. They’re meant for seeing Your divine form”. And we think it’s optional. Like: “And you can use the senses to do this or do that”. But somebody says, [who have] some connection with Krishna, says: “Now I understand, why there such a thing is site, why the senses of site exist? It exist to see You and Your paraphernalia, and Your pastimes. It’s a wonderful thing, gift of Yours — to hear about You, to hear Your holly name, to taste You. Raso ‘ham apsu kaunteya . Punyo gandhah prithivyam ca .
We have to remember: there is always and only Krishna. You know, where we’re coming from? We’re thinking about it. Like: we’re willing to allow Krishna, that there be akrishna, that actually there is always and only Krishna.

She said, “And now I understand, why we have eyes; what they’re meant for. They’re meant for seeing Your Divine form.” And we think, “It’s optional.” Like, “And you can use the senses to do this, or do that.” But, someone who have some connection with Kṛṣṇa, says, “Now I understand, why there such a thing like 'sight'; why the senses of sight exist. It exist to see You, and Your paraphernalia, and Your pastimes. It’s a wonderful thing—gift of Yours; to hear about You, to hear Your holly name, to taste You; raso ’ham apsu kaunteya...(SB:7.8); puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca (Bg: 7.9.1).
We have to remember, there is always, and only Kṛṣṇa. You know, where we’re coming from, is, “We’re thinking about it.” Like, “We’re willing to allow Kṛṣṇa—that, there be a Kṛṣṇa.” But, actually, there is always, and only Kṛṣṇa.

And Krishna’s the system: Radha and Krishna, Lalita-Vishakha, Nanda-Yashoda, Shridam-Subal etcetera.
So, where we are present? Vinod bole hai hai haridas hari nahe pai Bhaktivinod Thakur says: “Krishna, He is our nearest and dearest, but nowhere to be found. What is, what kind of a mass have we got [ourselves into]. But by hearing: “srutva gunan bhuvana-sundara srnvatam te”. Then Adhoksaja-Krisna can reveal Himself to us. Sraddhanvito'nusrinuyad atha varnayed yah . To faith. [] …the breath here Guru Maharaj says: the air… We have a scientist here. Atmosphere, stratosphere, ionosphere — anybody know that? What is it?

And Kṛṣṇa has system: Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa, Lalitā-Viśākhā, Nanda-Yaśodā, Śrīdāman-Subalā, etc... So, where we are present? vinoda kahe hāya! hāya! hari-dāsa hari nāhi pāya Bhaktivinod Ṭhākur singing, “Kṛṣṇa, He is our 'nearest and dearest', but nowhere to be found.” What is... what kind of a mess have we got ourselves into. But by hearing; śrutvā guṇān bhuvana-sundara śṛṇvatāṁ te...(SB:10.52.37). Then; adhokṣaja-Kṛṣṇa can reveal Himself to us;… śraddhānvito ’nuśṛṇuyād atha varṇayed yaḥ... (SB:10.33.39); trough faith. What he's saying? To breath here... Guru Mahārāj says, “The air...” What it's called?.. Do we have a scientist here? Atmosphere, stratosphere, ionosphere; anybody know that? What is it?

— …
— Year! What …call? Atmosphere, stratosphere, ionosphere. Right? [Laughing].
And saying: so air … make it’s. Maybe I’ve got some wrong or something, you know, somebody rights in… Air go so far, as a point, — Guru Maharaj saying. Then ether has more extensive range. But he think so: faith, there is a plane, that’s only approachable by faith. It’s a very… it’s a good example.
So, we need like, when you need to breath, you can’t be out of the atmosphere, where it is no air. [Won’t be] have to survive there.
Prabhupad told to Achyutananda: “You’ll faint” In that room Guru Maharaga’s broadcasting from, we will faint, we can’t remain conscious there. But through the cultivation of faith you can learn more like a diver. The divers, you know, the divers, who dive for pearls, the way they use to do at where like how to do with, how much you hold your breath. You hold your … then you go down and then you have to come up according to your capacity.

Devotee: Space... [inaudible]
Goswāmī Mahārāj: Yeah! But what is it called? Atmosphere, stratosphere, ionosphere, right?[laughing]. He's saying, “So, air...” He make it sound—maybe I’ve got this wrong, or something; you know, somebody writes it, and... [laughing] “Air go so far.” That's the point—Guru Mahārāj's saying. Then ether has more extensive range. But, he think, “So, faith; there is a plane, that’s only approachable by faith.” It’s a very... it’s a good example. So, we need, like—when you need to breath—you can’t be out of the atmosphere, where's no air. You won’t be able to survive there. Prabhupād told to Acyutānanda, “You’ll faint.” In that room Guru Maharaga’s broadcasting from—we will faint—we can’t remain conscious there. But, through the cultivation of faith you can learn more, like a diver. The divers, you know—the divers, who dive for pearls; the way they use to do it, where, like... how to do it—with how much you can hold your breath. You hold your breath, then you go down, and then you have to come up, according to your capacity.

Vrindavan Das Thakur saying like: a bird, flying in infinite sky. It’s another example. The finite going to meet the infinite. A drop of the infinite overwhelms the finite. Ekamseno sthito jagat. “Arjun, a drop of My infinite…if”, you know, “What’s finite to Me, is a f…”, you know, “inconceivable infinite to you. Let me know, when you [felt] enough”.
Sometimes in Krishna-consciousness we think: “We will believe all this things…We are …” But we have to reconceive the infinite, repeatedly. Two fingers too short [dui angaly]. What we thought was enough it’s not enough. It’s Krishna’s out of the range of that. That’s Adhoksaja.
But if He so chooses to reveal Himself to you, you can have a gleams.
Bhaktivinod Thakur says: “Like lightning”. Like now: if there’s lightning, everything will be illumined momentarily, and then it will vanish.

Vṛndāvan Das Ṭhākur saying, “Like a bird flying in infinite sky.” It’s another example. The finite's going to meet the Infinite. A drop of the Infinite overwhelms the finite; … ekāṁśena sthito jagat (Bg:10:42) “Arjun, a drop of my Infinite... if, you know— what’s finite to Me, is if, you know—inconceivable Infinite to you. Let me know, when you'd have enough.” Sometimes, in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we think, “No, we're thous, who believe in all this things, aren't we?” But we have to 're-conceive' the Infinite, repeatedly. Two fingers too short; dvi-aṅguli. What we thought was enough, it’s not enough. It’s... Kṛṣṇa’s out of the range of that; that’s; adhokṣaja. But, if He so chooses to reveal Himself to you, you can have a gleams.

Bhaktivinod Ṭhākur says, “Like lightning.” Like now—if there’s lightning, everything will be illumined momentarily, and then it will vanish. But, in the case of a 'gleams of Kṛṣṇa conception'—that the aftermath, will live some hankering in the heart of the devotee. Like the poet, Wallace Stevens; he has poem called, something like: thirteen different ways of looking at a Blackbird (Thirteen Ways of Looking at a Blackbird). Don’t worry about it. But one of the lines said, “If I do not know, which I prefer—the song of the Blackbird, or just after.” Understand? “The song, or just after.” “Just after” is separation—that means remembrance—remembering that. Like, “I don’t know, which I prefer—meeting or separation; union or separation. Seems, in separation—recalling that, it’s more profound; it’s deeper. Can recall again, and again, and again—a gleams.

But in the case of a gleams of Krishna-conception, that the aftermath will live some hankering in the heart of the devotee.
Like the poet Volest Even, he has poem, called like… thirteen different ways, looking like a black bird. Don’t worry about it. But one of the lines said: “If I do not know, [which] I prefer: the song of the black bird or just after” Understand? “The song or just after”. “Just after” is separation, that means remembrance, remembering that. That’s I don’t know, which I prefer: meeting or separation, union or separation. Seems in separ… recalling that. It’s more profound, it’s deeper, can recall again and again, and again a gleams.
But that will… how to say? [Fuel], some hunkering in that devotee for another connection, if it’s so pleases the Lord. And if not, that’s good too.
Radharani says: “If His happiness is Me suffering, then that’s good for Me. I’m happy with that. That’s all, I need to know: is whatever the situation is, is it making Krishna happy”.

But, that will—how to say—fuel some hunkering in that devotee, for another connection, if it’s so pleases the Lord. And if not, that’s good too. Rādhārāṇī says, “If His happiness is Me suffering, then that’s good for Me. I’m happy with that. That’s all I need to know, is—whatever the situation is—is it making Kṛṣṇa happy?” Like Gurudev praising Yudhāmanyu Prabhu, saying, “He just asked me, 'Do you want this, or not?' 'Does this making you happy, or not?' That was his only question.” And Gurudev's saying, “Yes.” Then he continues doing that—whether that makes him happy or not— that’s not his concern. That’s devotion.” Śrīmatī Rādhārāṇī; Antya-līlā, chapter 20, verse 47, Caitanya-Charitāmṛta;
āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām
adarśanān marma-hatāṁ karotu vā
yathā tathā vā vidadhātu lampaṭo
mat-prāṇa-nāthas tu sa eva nāparaḥ
(Śrī Chaitanya-charitāmṛta: Antya-līlā, 20.47)
adarśanān; It’s interesting. She speaks of not seeing Kṛṣṇa. That’s the real test. And that’s good for us, because that’s our situation. [laughing] We’re not seeing. So, if you can go on in the midst of not seeing—Hare Kṛṣṇa. Maybe a devotee—that highest, most renowned type person possible—a devotee of Kṛṣṇa.
Bg: Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā
Brs: Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu
Cc: Śrī Chaitanya-charitāmṛta
SB: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam
Su: Śvetāśvatara-upaniṣad
Vk: Vilāpa-kusumā jali
Vm:Vidagdha-mādhava

Like Gurudev phrasing Udamany Prabhu, saying: “He just asked me: ‘Do You want this or not? Does this making You happy or not?’ That was his only question”. And Gurudev saying: “Yes, then he continues doing that, whether that makes him happy or not, that’s not his concern. That’s devotion”.
Shrimati Radharani, Antya-lila, chapter 20 [verse 47], Chaytanya-charitamritam:
āśliṣya vā pāda-ratāṁ pinaṣṭu mām
adarśanān marma-hatāṁ karotu vā
yathā tathā vā vidadhātu lampaṭo
mat-prāṇa-nāthas tu sa eva nāparaḥ
Adarsanam. It’s interesting. She speaks [of] not seeing Krishna. That’s the real test. And that’s good for us, because that’s our situation. We’re not seeing.
So, if you can go on in the [не понятно]… of not seeing, Hare Krishna, maybe a devotee, that highest renounced type person possible — a devotee of Krishna.