How to deal with Christians?

Question: And I walked in the neighborhood and meet the neighbors, and today I met like a real heavy Christian type, (?) is the only way and she stopped me of like our believes first and then fired back (?). I wondered how to do like just (?) you no so many wars have been fought over this and we have to respect a faith, everyone has different faiths. And you can’t walk away when they come up to you and do like (?). How do you best deal this people like that?

Goswami Maharaj: Well, I would say that over the years I didn’t deal with them in the best way. [laughs]. Someone came up to me once like that the day John Lennon was assassinated and I was not in a good mood, I can’t say what I told him.

Devotee: It’s for after the class.
Goswami Maharaj: Yeah, not even. It’s something I am not proud of. But, yes, it depends on our, where we’re located, how comfortable we are with our own believes. Like, [no, always from the front, not from behind. You have to go in front]. So, just putting in the inverse, we’re also known for our fanaticism. And I say ‘we’ in quotes, but whatever. People, who understand and know what I’m talking about they get an idea. So, we have some reputation, or have had reputation being fanatical. So, long time ago, when that would be brought up to Srila Prabhupad, as it was from time to time, he said, in a very appealing, charming way, “Or, you must forgive my devotees.” But he said something very sweet (?), “What they have is so valuable, and they are so young, so, forgive them if they might have wanted to protect that, they might have dealt with you unfairly or overreacted in some situation. But what they have is so valuable and it’s so delicate and so young, that they are trying to protect that thing.” So, the generous point of view, we can extend that to others and say that it’s sometimes actually symptomatic of lack of conviction, or comfort with one’s own believes, this type of intense declaration of belief.

Like I remember, of little I remember of my training from I was trained by nuns, so I have some familiar, a little bit, I’m not very well versed and the Bible, the New Testament and all these things, but I remember a few things. And one of the things I remember was about Pharisees going in the temple and making a dramatic show of their fallenness or their supplication to Divinity. And the point being is that was being frowned upon as being not really symptomatic of true belief. Whereas we hear repeatedly from Srila Guru Maharaj that the wealth of one who is culturing devotion is negativity. And we see that throughout Krsna Consciousness, and if you look at the expressions of substantial devotees, up to and including the most substantial devotee, who is Srimati Radharani Herself, wheat expression of Her comes from the mouth of Mahaprabhu? Na prema gandhosti derapi meharo kunda mi so bhagya baram brakasitam, where is saying, “I don’t have a scent of the fragrance of Krsna-prem, of love for Krsna, what to speak of the drop of that substance. So, when we hear associated to any believe system, so much self-congratulatory, self-certifying expressions, how much love someone has for the God of their choice, whatever name you want to insert. The Bengali saying comes to mind, akti bhakti chorer lokan, too much devotion is the sign of the thief. It’s something else is going on inside. And also what is this necessity to aggressively assert believe upon others to somehow validate your own belief. The you validate your own belief is by aggressively forcing that upon others.

So, personally over the years I would say, when I was newly connected with Krsna Consciousness on harinam or preaching we’d sometimes run into these situations, and we’d been to this whole tete-for-tete (?) tark-vitark, argument-counterargument, your Bible quotes verses, my Bible quotes this, I don’t think it’s of any value. You know, that’s my final conclusion. So, [this isn’t gonna work out].
Bhakti Lalita Devi dasi: The lady ended by saying, that she is going to pray for me.
Goswami Maharaj: Yeah, well, that’s good.
Bhakti Lalita Devi dasi: And I’ve just realize, don’t waste your time, let them be (?), just be nice.

Goswami Maharaj: Right, we see Gurudev, that jiu-jitsu strategy, the other side comes with full force and you just sort of dodge it and let it go. There is the famous atheist died in the last year, Christopher Hitchens, and many people were praying fro him, that he would, because he was dying from cancer, that he would have some kind of the dead-bed conversion or something like that. And he said, “It’s not likely that I’m going to recense everything I’ve aspoused (?) over so many years, but if your prayers are well-taken, he tried with some grace to (?) aspouse of the atheistic believes, when people are like, “We’re praying for you.” He said, “Allright.” And they wanted to have a national prayer day in his honor, that kind of thing. But and we see not in regard to Christianity, but [this can only work when it’s quieter, Anukrsna, it has to be like a little quieter, cause it’s distracting]. Anyway, right, for the our friendly atheist.

So, I’m thinking, just a parallel event when Mahaprabhu went to Varanasi, and there was Prakasananda Saraswati, this great mayavadi sannyasi with sixty thousands desciples, siwty thousand other sannyasis. And some of the devotees, Tapan Misara, and I forget the other, and they were telling Mahaprabhu, there was some pain in their hearts, that living in this city, they say, “Where you will never hear the name Krsna,” but you’re always hearing, maya and so many other things. And they’re simple hearted devotees, it was an unpleasant situation for them, and Mahaprabhu is listening, somehow, after some time, he goes to that assembly, where Prakasananda Saraswati and all the sannyasis are. And we’re told, he enters and washes his feet and where you clean the feet, which is considered a dirty area, not to far from that he takes his seat. But as they all  look over, we’re told, it’s as if the Brahma-joyti had entered like a thousand sons, this effulgence of Mahaprabhu and they appreaciated, “Oh, he has this extraordinary spiritual radiance.” So, Prakasananda Saraswati is saying, “Why are you sitting over there by where we clean? Your Holiness, please Sripad, come, come!” And he brings him to his side and he’d heard news, rumors about Mahaprabhu, that there is this sannyasi, he is followed by a hundred thousand people, he’s singing and dancing, tears are streaming down his eyes. He’s sometimes falling a=unto the ground in ecstasy, rising again, dancing again, taking Krsna-nam madly, but not studing Vedanta, which at the time, and even Mahaprabhu took mayavadi-sannyas, with the mantram tattva-masi, and no sikha, the shaved head.

So, Prakasananda Saraswati thought and he uses the Bengali word, pavuk, means, I guess you can render it as a sentimentalist, someone who is overly sentimental, if you say it in a sarcastic way. So, he is thinking, “Why are you doing these things? A sannyasi should be grave and should study Vedanta. And not all this singing, dancing, and getting emotional.” So, what we sometimes condemn or caution about those, again back to the original the Pharisees say, “Oh, I am so fallen, Lord,” in front of everyone, making a big show. But he say in that sloka, na prama gandhasti thera premera na haro no krandama, kranda, crying. He’d say, “Well, we’re seeing you crying so much.” He says, “That is just to make a show to the people, that have got something (?). It’s to make show that people will think I have devotion.” This is the greatest enemy of the devotee is pratistha, which means in this case, self-establishment. If pratistha means name and fame, we hear in the Ramananda samvad, there is no greater name and fame, than the reputation of having devotion to Krsna. We can think, “Oh, that’s not true in the regular world.” We’re not talking about the insanesylom (?), what’s popular in the insanesylom. Talking about in Reality, the greatest name and fame you can have, is that you have devotion to Krsna, you have Krsna-prem. So, Mahaprabhu says, “This crying and showing symptoms it’s just to deceive people into thinking I’m a devotee.” So, the point being, that those who have devotion, they conceal their position, they’re not advertising that, they are not approaching others to establish themselves.

Mahhavaendra Puri in the dead of night after Gopinath stole khir for him, and revealed to the pujari, that this Madhava Puri, there six pots of khir underneath my clothes, give one to the Maharaj, know as Puri. And so Madhavendra Puri is so happy to receive that, but then he realizes, by morning, the word will be out, what’s happened, we know how things works. That pujari he is going like, “You know what happened last night?” “What?” He’s not gonna believe it. Gopinath appeared to me in a dream. “Really?” “Yes.”  And told this Maharaj who is here, the one, who is getting a sandal wood pope, I mean the sandalwood and camphor, the carpoor (?), for Gopal and Govardhan, well, Gopinath said, that he personally stolen some of this khir and directed me, I’ve found under the dhoti, pot of khir. Then everyone, like wild fire it will spread, “He is so great.” So, what does he do? He flees, this is what an actual devotees does, he’s running away from the reputation that he has love for Krsna.

So, Guru Maharaj will tell us, it’s always measured in the inverse to the degree that we are in waned (?), that shows necessity, to degree that there is hunger show the necessity for food. And Rupa Goswami gives examples, daruka, the charioteer of Krsna, sometimes one of his duties is to fan, but sometimes he’s overwhelmed by beauty of Krsna or  overwhelmed by realizing, “How fortunate I am, I am the charioteer of Krsna.” And the ecstatic symptoms well up within him, he’s stunned and can’t fan, his ecstatic tear are streaming down his face, his body’s full of horripilation and other ecstatic symptoms. He is cursing the ecstasy inside, thinking, “My job, my service is to fan and because of this ecstasy I can’t fan.” Rupa Goswami is giving that as an example of devotion. And then followed by the example of Srimati Radharani, who when ecstatic tears come from Her eyes, Her eyes become flooded with ecstatic tears, the image of Krsna becomes blurred and She can’t see Krsna any more, so She is cursing those tears. What someone else might consider their inconceivable good fortune She is cursing.

So, we’re as Srila Gurudev would say, “My religion is finding fault with myself.” His approach is to tolerate the arrogant assertions of other, while decrying his own position (?). You may remember being with him in Geneva in Switzerland and going to the place of the Ram-Krsna mission, he was invited one evening with his entourage he went there and the head of that was this Indian gentleman, who was boasting by, in the introduction he was supposed to be introducing Gurudev, he told the audience assembled there how he was the only Swami in the whole of Switzerland, and what his matriculation, like how far he gone, he had a PhD, he was telling everyone how qualified he was. And then in a very short way said something about Srila Gurudev, Srila Govinda Maharaj, and then like, “And now he will say something.” So, Srila Govinda Maharaj said, “I am so unqualified, I am just a village boy, I have no, I didn’t go very far in formal education, I am so unqualified in so many different way,” started telling just the opposite, how unqualified he is, and if we’ll all just bear with him and overlook his qualifications, but my Guru Maharaj he is so qualified and from him, by his grace, his mercy, he extended a little something to me, and then he like (?) quoted a Sanskrit verse. And then he explained that, and after he quoted another one, another one, after a while he quoted on twenty or thirty like heavy duty Sanskrit verses, telling everyone how unqualified he was. And that man he just started to like shrink in his presence. As Vallabha Bhatta, boasting of his own qualifications, in the presence of Mahaprabhu’s devotees, no one’s taking him seriously. But it’s just interesting also. And then at one point Kaviraj Goswami said, “He began to feel like a crow in the assembly of swans.”  Cause they’re all paramahamsa vaisnavas. So, all these beautiful swans with their grace, with their elegance, and he felt like a crow, proud of his own (?) learning. And insulting the great commentator of Bhagavatam, Sridhar Swami. He said, “My explanation exhells (?) his,” and Mahaprabhu in word play, swami also means husband, he said, “One who does not accept the swami is a prostitute. So, if you do not accept Sridhar Swami.” So, he dealt with, in the beginning by neglect, then Mahaprabhu made a few coments. Ultimately he approached Gadadhar Pandit and put Gadadhar Pandit in a very awkward position, cause Gadadhar Pandit, being Srimati Radharani minus Her bhav is more like Rukmini (?) very agreeable and wanting to create any problem, but Vallabha Bhatta’s saying, “Will you hear my explanations?” And Gadadhar Pandit is like, “Mahaprabhu will be angry with me.” But then he thought, “But Mahaprabhu he knows everything, and he knows, that I don’t want to hear this.” Somehow it went ahead. But, then there is a consideration, sei sei dikare nistha saguna nai pari kirtita adhikar, capacity, eligibility. Like we’re told one of the offences of the Holy Name is to instruct the glories of the Holy Name to the faithless person. So, someone will say, “Oh, I didn’t say anything about the Holy Name.” It’s not limited to that. Means to give Krsna Concepton to someone who has no faith in it or doesn’t want to hear that. We’re putting them in a position of the committing oofences. So, from many different points of view it’s best for us to avoid the situation.

But preachers take risk sometimes, we don’t know, as you say they’re asking, “Oh, could you explain something?” And you think, “Oh, some sincere person,” we try to say something, but then we realize they have another hidden agenda. And at that point it’s better for us to dandavat and withdraw. And  they can say that they will pray for us, “Thank you very much!” But the minimum requirement is sraddha or faith, and here we can take it, that means some wiliness to give a hearing to Krsna Conception. And this is how we see who had sukrti and who does not, who is truly pious and who is not. Because the truly pious person coming in connection with Krsna Conception will recognize, will not offend it. They will appreciate it on some level. Even the current Pope, Benedict, when asked about Krsna, he said, “He can be seen as a Christ figure.” So, coming from him that’s a plus. So, sraddha, faith, the wiliness to hear. When years ago I would be invited to some catholic schools, that were run by Jesuits, by Jesuit priest and they have something that they taught an employed called the willful suspension of disbelieve. So, they would tell the students before we come, that, “For you to get inside this tradition or this other means of religious experience we recommend you the willful suspension of disbelieve,  approach it from the position of the believer. How someone could believe like this, think like this, etc. Be open for that.” So, naturally that worked very well for us, that’s what we ask. And in one place, perhaps in the Bhagavad-gita commentary Srila Prabhupad Swami Maharaj says to make your approach you have to at least theoretically accept the premise that Krsna is the Supreme personality of Godhead. You can theoretically accept that. Then there is some hope.

So, that’s why we find sometimes that some people, who know absolutely nothing about Krsna Consciousness, they get some exposure, and they’re happy about that, they can articulate what it is, but they get some exposure, and  they smile and they think, “It’s okay.” Or it’s somehow resonates in their hearts in a deeper level, and then there’re those who even with a little exposure become very antagonistic, or it brings out some ugliness. Then we can understand they’re not happy champaks.  And there is some duskriti, that is, or what Gurudev said, quoting Guru Maharaj and Saraswati Thakur, some spoiling the lotus of their own good fortune. In Krsna-lila sometimes asuras say offensive things about Krsna or to Krsna, but because it’s part of Krsna-lila,  Saraswati makes their words, turns their words into glorification. Like Sisupal, calling Krsna, naradama, that means the lowest among man. But Saraswati Thakur turns that into narottam, nara uttama, the best amongst man. And there are different instances like that. So, as I’ve told, my own little version of that is Nietzsche who is famous for this where he says, “God is dead.”  And there is more to that, he says, “We have killed him.” And it goes on, I don’t want to go into the details of his explanation, but it’s a famous statement, is attributed to him, it’s one of his works. But in another place he said, and he probably meant it sarcastically, he said, “If I would have believed in God He would have to be an excellent dancer.” So, I offered that if Nietzsche had heard Srila Guru Maharaja’s conception, that he could have found it charming, because when we’re presenting the end, the Search for Sri Krsna to Srila Guru Maharaj, it’s structured in a particular way, this book, it has structure, the ontological structure. And it culminates in one of the final slokas of the Prema-dhama-stotram, what is it? Atma-lila sarva-siddhi purna sokyha laksanam, what Guru Maharaj said is the ultimate conception of the ultimate Reality that Reality uktimately must be dancing. Why? Because, when you’re totally satisfied to the end degree, the natural outcome is ecstatic dance, when you, ecstasy means besides yourself, outside yourself. So, he’s saying, the highest conception of the  ultimate reality must be dancing and that alludes to Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, who relishing his own sweetness, the outcome is ecstatic dance.

So, and there are so many beautiful slokas about that, nindantam pulako korena bikasam nipa prasunachchavim prodri krptava bhujadvayam hari hari ittuchaivedantam muhu, that he is waving his own, he’s dancing ecstatically, Hari Hari, chanting the Name of Krsna. Notyantam dhrutamasunir jara chaye, and while he’s singing and dancing, tears are sreaming from his eyes, making the ground before him muddy, that quantity of tears, ecstatic tears, drutamasunirjana chaye sinchnatam  urvita lam gayantam nija para sadaye parivrtam, with his devotees, sri gaurachandram nama. So, we can identify even in what seems to be opposed to Krsna Consciousness we can adjust it in different way for our own edification. But really we don’t want to give people the opportunity to commit offences, that we know also, that if we enter a certain discussion or a certain situation, that someone is likely to become offensive, so we try and avoid that, and not allow for that kind of a circumstance to happen. But I would say in your case, like Gadadhar Pandit said, “Mahaprabhu knows that I don’t want to be in this situation, who this came about, so, he’ll forgive me.”

Bhakti Lalita Devi dasi: That’s one of their trained, who trained how to approach, [unclear].
Goswami Maharaj: Yes, right, it’s the way it is. And there is also the statement in Bhagavad-gita by Krsna, “Let not the wise disrupt the minds of the ignorant.” So, if someone is at the particular stage of development, and if we’re comfortable with our own belief, not in the sense, I don’t means this in the sense of complement, but I realize this in time also, when I was younger, I thought I need to convert others, but as get older, I’ve realized, I’ve the best of their arguments, they have failed to convert me. So, we prefer to be non-aggressive, non-assertive, while still maintaining nam-sankirttan, preaching, in Guru Maharaja’s words, it’s the highest form of disinfectant, it disinfects the environment. But of the heart of the matter, there has to be some wiliness to hear, what’s Prabhupad used to call the, a potent speaker and the fertile listener. If that’s there, then there can be a spiritual transaction. In the beginning of Bhagavad-gita, sisaste ham sari mam tvam prapanam, Arjun is saying, “Now I’m surrendering myself to you, please, instruct me.” Otherwise, it won’t be a spiritual transaction.

Any other question?

His question before was saying that an audioveda ask, what was that? If God has made us the way we are, how does this question go? Basically it comes down to (?) question. That if He knows everything and He knows we gonna (?) by having free will, why did He make us like this? And it seems to indirectly point to some fault on His part. But Srila Guru Maharaj will point out, “Free will is what distinguishes us from inert matter.” Free will, consciousness, free will, choice. And Guru Maharaja’s famous example about Gandhi when in the Indian independence movement at one point the British said, “The reason we’re not giving you independence is because you’re not qualified for it, you’ll abuse it, you’ll misuse it. That’s why we’re not giving it to you.” In a patronizing way he told this. And Guru Maharaj said Gandhi’s answer was, “Freedom means the right to do wrong.” It can’t just be one way or when Guru Maharaj switched it to taste, you can taste bitter, you can taste sweet. The tongue gives you capacity to taste rasa, to taste sweetness, but it also gives you the capacity to taste bitter, and any other sort of things in between. So, freedom means the right to do wrong. So, if you withdraw this ability to choose, to exercise free will, they say, “No, they can only be like this,” then you don’t have conscious living beings any more, cause consciousness implies freedom and choice.

So, upadrstanum mantancha bharata bhokta mahesvara paratmeti chapa yukto dehismin purusapara, told Paramatma, the Upadrsta, is the observer, the overseer, who’s in the neutral position, not interfering with the minude (?) independence of the jiva-soul, not interfering with their choice, allowing them to choose as they see. And what have we been seduced by? The satanic mania that it’s better to reign in the hell, than to serve in heaven, as given in Milton’s Paradise Lost. This prospect, do you want to reign in the hell, be the King in hell, or servant in heaven.

Devotee: Actually, the question was why God punish us when we choose wrong way?
Goswami Maharaj: Oh, all right. So, and then it terms of punishments. So, then we choose to live in the world where fro every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The world of exploitation. So, Bhaktivinod Thakur he presents it in this way in the Jaiva-dharma. Is if you take gold, and you want to purify it, you have to place it in fire. When you bur put (?) fire on gold, all the impurities are removed and what remains is pure gold, that’s how you determine the quality of gold. So, Bhaktivinod Tahkur says, “The so called miseries that are inflicted upon the jivas, they are like this fire that removes the impurities and brings them to their golden condition. You understand? So, from the overview it’s not objectionable, if the outcome is utter purity all the dirty things are removed, then it’s a good thing. 

So, I’ve mentioned that different times, that I used to live by a fire station. Or where a chief used to live, the fire chief, in San-Francisco. And outside there was a plack (?), a brass plack (?), that they kept very shiny, and had this few lines of poetry on it, and remember they’re firemen. And the poetry says, “By fire shell hearts be proven, let’s virtuous gold grow dim (?).” So, it’s saying, these virtuous potential we have what will bring it out? Is the fire of circumstance. Or in this case, the punishment, miseries, the miserable conditions of material existence can be a catalyst for purification. In Bhagavad-gita Krsna tell to Arjun, matras parsasta kaunteya sitosna suka-dukha da agama paino nityastam titiksa sva bharata, titiksasva means to tolerate, saying, “Arjun, this world hot and cold, (?) and distress, happiness, sorrow, just tolerate it. As you get bad thing without trying for them, good things also come to you, don’t  put your energy in that.” The Bhagavatam, tasyeva he tu prayate takovido na labhyate brahmatam uparyata, tey for that thing, that you couldn’t find wondering the length and breadth of the Universe, that’s the culture of Krsna Consciousness. But Guru Maharaj says the message of the Gita is tolerate, don’t quarrel with the environment, go within yourself, make an adjustment there and additionally He gives an example he’s saying, when he’s talking about punishment, saying, “As long as a child is in denial, like the mother knows they’ve done something wrong and they saying, ‘No, I didn’t do that.”

Like I used to tell my mother, when I did something really like just different, it’s hard to describe, like say she should come back and (?) and for some reason I wanted to burn pieces of rubber to see what happens. And as (?), the whole kitchen which was yellow had a little black dots all over it. And she said, “What happened?” And I said, “You know, some man (?) here and started burning rubber. I have no idea why he did that.” And then he left. So, my punishment was to not talk to have to like stand in the corner and look at the wall and not speak. So, that’s because of being in denial, of lying. But Guru Maharaj said, “If you acknowledge your fault, that actually I’m the culprit, in his word that you alone are the only culprit, if you acknowledge that, then the punishment is not necessary. The punishment is to bring the point of acknowledging what your responsibility, like karja karchitve hetur prakrtir uchhate, purusa sukha-dukha nam, I forget the rest, but it’s a sloka, the Gita, where the responsibility, Krsna is saying is yours, is jiva’s. So, really, we are responsible for the suffering.

You can say, “But not a blade of grass moves without the will of God.” That’s true, in the background. So, the Bhagavatam tells us, tatenu kam bham susamiksamano bhunjana hevatma krtam krpam vipakam, susamiksa, samiksa means to examine, to analize, but susamilsa means to really scrutinize. So, on a deep level reading of what’s going on environmentally, circumstantially, our karmic circumsances. This Bhagavatam sloka according to Guru Maharaj is saying, realize the friendly hand of Krsna is in the background of all these things. He is not like an old testament God punishing people, the wrong doers, like He is going to club you. “If you don’t do what I say, lest I smythe (?) from the face of the Earth. He’s just so angry. Not like that. He’s saying, the friendly hand of Krsna is in the background.

So, on a deep level, what do we hear? That the exalted soul, Gaurakisor das Babaji Maharaj…Like Sukadev Goswami, the general populist they thought he is a madman. Children would call him names, follow him, it’s said a group of children were mocking him on his way to the assembly, where Pariksit Maharaj with all the sages where he is offered the presidential seat to address that the finest minds of the Universe have assembled there, they’re offering him that seat, on his way to take that seat children are mocking him.  So, yanesa sarva bhutanam kasme jamiti samyami, they can’t recognize who he is, they don’t have the skills, the capacity to recognize a spiritually evolved person. There are seeing from an external point of view.

In a similar way sometimes children were being naughty and throwing things at Gaurakisor Das Babaji Maharaj, they thought he’s some crazy old Baba. Some pagal, Bengali sadhu. So, but what was his response? We hear he is saying, because he’s Mahabhagavata and has deep range vision, seeing Krsna in everywhere, in everything and not just in some generic sense or Paramatmic sense, but he’s seeing Svayam Bhagavan Krsna. So, what did he say? “Krsna, you’re the cause of all of these children throwing, it’s you they’re throwing those things. I know, it’s not them, I’ve no quarrel with them, I know you’re behind this. Why are you doing that? Throwing things at me. But I know how to deal with you also, so, I am going to approach Ma Yasoda, and she knows what to do with you. She’ll be coming after you with the stick and give you a whipping for this type of misbehavior.” That’s the angel of vision of Gaurakisor Das Babaji Maharaj. And now we’ll say, “Well, he is Gaurakisor Das Babaji Maharaj. He can see things like that.” What about us?

Then we’re told, people say, “What is the use of philosophy?” You use philosophy to interpret your life circumstances, that’s what it’s useful for. Anybody can think in an ordinary way, in a conventional way, but it takes someone who is sincerely engaged in Krsna culture to apply this type of understanding to their own circumstances and their own life and to think, “All right.” So, the great devotees, who actually, their eyes are open, they can see Reality, they are saying, “Krsna is in the background.” I can’t see it, but I am a blind person, I don’t possess deep level seeing, but those who do, they’ve said that this is how you read the circumstances. So, on the basis of my faith in them I will imply their analysis to my circumstances and I’ll walk in the plain of faith my believe in them. That’s the idea.

But I like Guru Maharaja’s quote about no pride does the Lord tolerate in the heart of a devotee. And he uses Peter as an example, the famous, “On this rock I’ll build my church” Peter. The leader of the twelve apostles. That when Christ, we know the famous, who did that picture? Leonardo. The last supper. And they are all like, “Is that I?” You know, “One of you will betray me.” And they were all wondering, “Could it be me? Who?” And Peter at one point goes, “I will never betray you, maybe some of these others, I am not like that. You don’t have to worry about me.” And Christ said, “You, before the cock crows, you will betray me before the cock crows thrice.” Something like that. And so that man, and who betrayed, he said, “You’ll deny that you’ve ever known me.” We know, it was the Judas who did the actual so called betrayal, he said, “But you’ll deny that you’ve ever known me.” That’s also a type of betrayal. But, so Guru Maharaj concluded saying, “So, no pride does the Lord tolerate in the heart of the devotee, even the pride that, “I am your devotee.” He said, so, the Peter, who is the leader was exposed. But still there is salvation is possible, he later becomes the head of the church. Why? Because mercy is above justice. As told in Merchant of Venice and it drops like the gentle rain from heaven. Hare Krsna.