Srimad Bhagavatam is the treasure of the Vedas

Goswāmī Mahārāj: So, any questions from anyone?

Audience: In the book Guardian of Devotion of Srila Sridhar Maharaj it is written that Srimad-Bhagavatam was recited four times, but it was written only by the words of Sukadeva Goswami, and Narada and Vyasa said that his recitation was the best, because there are no sectarian ideas there.

Goswāmī Mahārāj: Well, I’d have to look at that directly, but I can say what comes to my mind, and first of all we should… be thankful and aware [that] when Srila Guru Maharaj gives these kind of overviews, he looks at the whole of the Bhagavatam, or the Vedas, and he makes certain pronouncements…, he gives insights into certain things that are not normally understood. So, he’s qualified and capable of giving some sort of comparative analysis… and it reminds me of Srila Gurudeva once making reference to a statement of Bhaktivinoda Thakur, I think it’s in the songs in the Radhastakam section, and there’s one where it says, “All the Vedas declare that Krishna is the property of Radharani and her girlfriends”...So, Gurudeva was drawing our attention [to the fact] that this is an extraordinary statement. Generally, when someone reads the Vedas, this is not going to be obvious to them. Srila Guru Maharaj has told us that with his insight that, “The Vedas are pointing in the direction of the Krishna conception, but they are predominated by Brahman conception”, which otherwise is sometimes rendered as impersonal, impersonalizm… or abstract you can say, a more abstract idea.

“[The Vedas deal] mainly with Brahma”, he said, “and then some paramatma, like the param-tattva of the yogis, and with a hint of Bhagavan”, that’s his assessment. So, then for Bhaktivinoda Thakur to say, “The Vedas declare that Krishna is the property  of Radharani and her girlfriends”, it’s a somewhat shocking, extraordinary statement, but with regards to that Srila Gurudev once said, “Bhativinoda Thakur can say this, because he has a view of the whole thing”. So, he can see all of it, and he also knows where it’s going, what it’s meant to reveal śrutibhir vimṛgyām, they’re pointing in that direction, but he knows, he’s descended from the direction in which they’re pointing. So, he knows fully well what is the purpose of all of this, where it goes, what the Upanishads are trying to illuminate. As in the beautiful sloka of Rupa Goswami about the Holy Name where he says,

“Nikhila-śruti-mauli-ratna-mālā-dyuti-nīrājita-pāda-paṅkajānta…” (Nāmāṣṭaka 1), he’s saying..., as a side note ...the meaning of the word arati, the waving of the ghee lamp, is derived from the sanskrit word ratri, which means means night or the darkness, so arati is derived from there, it means bringing illumination.

So, really it can be seen in many different ways, but we’re taking the ghee lamp and illuminating the deity for people to see. When Srila Avadhut Maharaj visited South India, I forget the precise temple, he went to some of the ancient temples there, the famous temples, and he mentioned one of them, I don’t know if it was Sri Rangam, it may have been. He said they don’t use any electricity for anything, all illumination is from ghee lamps, that’s the only kind. So, that ghee lamp..it’s not just that we’re waving or showing, but it was meant for showing the lotus feet of the deity, and the other part of the form of the deity..that’s more in line with the idea. So, again, and that’s a beautiful thing…

I remember the last time Srila Gurudeva was in Nabadwipa... he was not very talkative at those times, but one day he was really obviously ecstatic, and he was singing some song, and I said, “Maharaj, what is that song you’re singing?”. He said, “ Oh… Nandarani, she is doing arati to the beautiful lotus face of Krishna”. That’s what he was thinking about, the beautiful lotus face of Krishna, as revealed by the arati of Nandarani Yashoda.

So, and interestingly in his poetry, in the Nitai Chaitanya Arati …Do you know the line about the 108? …Anyway we have Sadhu Priya working on that, but there’s a line where it’s talking about the 108 flames of a ghee lamp… But, Gurudeva is giving a poetic metaphor, he’s saying the 108 Upanishads, like the flames or the śikhā, the flames on a 108 flame ghee lamp, they are revealing their divine form, Pastimes, personalities etc. So, it’s a question of having that vision. So Srila Guru Maharaj, as an overview, he has pointed out in looking at the Bhagavatam, that there were four recitations: Brahma to Narada, Narada to Vyas, Vyas to Sukadeva, Sukadeva to Pariksit Maharaj and Suta Goswami is there… so maybe not Brahma to Narada… anyway, he has indicated four. So, Narada to Vyas, Vyas to Sukadev, Sukadev to Pariksit Maharaj and Suta Goswami to the 60,000 sages in Naimisaranya.

So, what I can think, on the basis of other things he’s said, he would sometimes say of the Bhagavatam that there are certain sections that don’t appear to be entirely essential, in the sense that they’re being mentioned to give some context, some historical context and relevance, and to provide the foundation for Krishna conception’s presentation. As an example, just a simple one, without getting too far out there, in the ninth canto, before the tenth canto begins, there’s a section where a dynasty is mentioned, and the names of the kings and their descendants, and it goes on, and on, and on… cause it’s getting to the point of the Yadu dynasty, and the appearance of Krishna. So, from an absolute point of view, we can say that is not absolutely essential to have that part, but it has a purpose there, which is to provide a foundation there for Krishna conception. So, in that sense it is… It’s ancillary ..that’s the word, it’s assisting in that way.

So, perhaps when he refers to Narada’s recitation of Bhagavatam to Vyasa, he will sometimes describe that as being ten slokas. There are ten slokas there, and then after speaking that to Vyasa, Guru Maharaj will say he told Vyasa to meditate upon this and then… what’s the word for expansion? Vistār is one word, there are other words that mean to expand and to extend. So Vyasadeva, in the beginning of the Bhagavatam it’s described, that he’s in his aśram,  Bhadirikashrama on the banks of the Saraswati river, and he’s feeling some despondency, and this is after having compiled all the Vedas, Puranic literature and presented even Mahabharata, which contains Bhagavad-gita… and in some of these Puranas they mention Krishna, Krishna is mentioned there...  Padma Purana, there’s even the Uttara-khanda of the Padma Purana, Srimati Radharani is mentioned in certain places, but Narada is pointing out to him, and this is all again from the insight being given by Srila Guru Maharaj, “that the way you’ve presented it, even though I’m aware of what your goal is, your target, but the way you’ve presented this, it’s couched in such a way, that people could misinterpreted it with some degree of mundanity… as reflected in sattva-guṇa... as the highest aspect of the saguṇa plane, but still, it’s not nirguṇa.

So, he’s saying, that’s why you are feeling despondent, because the end result of this is, our natural tendency is to degrade. So, even when we come in connection with theism, or religion, theistic culture, religious practice, we’re looking for loopholes or for things that will allow us to remain attached in the mundane world. So, if there’s some kind of religious prescription that says “you can be this much spiritual, and this much material, and that’s ok”, we like that. In this regard, there’s a section in The Brothers Karamazov book of Dostoyevsky, where… you know who the grand inquisitor is? …that was a person in the church at the time in Spain in charge of interrogating people and punishing them, he’s known as the grand inquisitor, a very feared figure… but in this story, two of the brothers meet. The one brother is like a monk, and the other brother is not a monk, he’s more of a sensualist, a viṣayī, but he says “I’ve written a little story you should hear”, I forget their names, ones name is Alyosha or something like that, if somebody here knows, you can inform the proper authorities.

Anyway, in that book, one brother says, “Let me tell you this little story I wrote, and tell me what you think of it”, and in his story, the grand inquisitor meets Jesus, and the grand inquisitor is chastising Jesus, it’s not exactly Narada and Vyasa, but ...you know… and the grand inquisitor is saying “It’s great what you did originally, dying on the cross for everybody, but you made a couple of mistakes. One was that you told everybody about them having free will, and they have the burden of making decisions and accepting the reactions for doing that. You can’t imagine how much guilt that placed upon people, they really can’t handle free will”.

Remember the grand inquisitor is kind of the demonic head of the Church at the time, so he’s saying, “What we’ve done, we have a solution for this, we let the people sin a little bit, because besides you, you’re no doubt exceptional, you’re an extraordinary personality, and your saint friends, nobody can follow these things, and people are racked with guilt for their inability to avoid sinful activities. So, we let them sin a little bit, and it’s great, they’re happy, they’ve handed their freedom to us on a golden plate. So, we make all the decisions, we do that, we let them sin a little bit, people are happy, things are going on, and really I don’t see how you would fit in, how we could reconfigure things to include you at present”.

The whole time he’s saying all these things, Jesus is just listening, he doesn’t say anything, but the grand inquisitor, and this is the point in this story, presented with all this type of irony, is that people can not handle free will, they’ve a tendency to commit sinful activities, and so religion… accommodates them in some way. So, what is the beginning, what does Vyasa write after Narada comes and tells him, “That’s what you’ve done! Everyone in the world will remain  in the material world, and if we press them on why, they’re going to say, Vedavyasa says… That’s why you’re the person that has to correct it” Again, in Guru Maharaj’s words, If someone comes along and presents another idea, people are going to say, “Are you a greater authority than Vedavyasa? Vedavyasa says this and you say something else?”

So, Narada, the word used in Sanskrit is jugupsitam dharma kṛte nuśāsataḥ… (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 1.5.15), but jugupsitam, if you look at different parts of the Bhagavatam, it’s really strong language. Gurudeva knew how strong it was, because he knows Sanskrit, so does Guru Maharaj, but If we look at it we just see the word jugupsitam…for the most part, but it means condemned. So, Vyasa is condemning it, and sometimes Guru Maharaj would say “Traitor!!!”, Narada is calling Vyasa a traitor, Vedavyasa, who has given all the Scriptures…What did he do to betray the world? He gave “religion”. That was what he was supposed to do, now he’s being criticised for giving religion to the world, but what kind of religion? He himself later, having meditated on Narada’s sweet chastisement, he pens the sloka, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo ‘tra paramo nirmatsarāṇāṁ satāṁ (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 1.1.2), he’s saying kaitavo dharmaḥ, religion that’s got a little cheating on the side, that’s not what this book is about. Maybe, in some things I wrote previously, people could get that idea, or search for that kind of loop hole and remain attached, and go on with mundane activities in the name of religion, he’s saying this book will not be like that.

That sloka… the other day we were talking about the other day by Visvanath Chakravarti Thakur, beautiful sloka… we should all learn it… together we can learn it, I don’t even know it. It’s,

ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanaṁ
ramyā kāchid upāsanā vraja-vadhū-vargeṇa yā kalpitā
śrīmad-bhāgavataṁ pramāṇam amalaṁ premā pum-artho mahān
śrī-chaitanya-mahāprabhor matam idaṁ tatrādarāḥ na paraḥ
(Chaitanya-mañjuṣa)

…na paraḥ means no other, but sometimes little variations… so dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa …religion, money making, sex, liberation… in India they really like this… dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa, so they’ll say, “Now I’m in the artha stage”, making money, then will come kāma, enjoyment, then according to the religious books, when you’re really old, and you’re not good for anything else, you can’t make any more money, have any more sexual activities, because, well you know… unless modern science has some solutions to that, but then, when you’re basically old, useless, impotent etc, then mokṣa.

I’m being a little brutal here, but it’s a new year… I’ll mellow out as the year goes on, but I figure it’s a new year, I can just… Once this Giriraj Maharaj of ISKCON, he was one of the best collectors there and he invited me to go with him to Jamaica…the land of Bob Marley, to collect for some projects in India. So, we went to Jamaica and we were the guests of these millionaire indians, and they have these big factories and they’re …doing what they do.

So, we’re there preaching, collecting, doing different things, and at one place, our host had us staying in the room of his son, and above the bed, there was this big poster of Arjuna like this, he’s on his knees having stepped off the chariot (Maharaj puts hand to his head indicating the despondency of Arjuna) and Krishna is like that (Maharaj extends arm and points )…, because indians, not all of them, just most of them, like to say Bhagavad-gita is about karma yoga, and I’ll reveal what their idea of karma yoga is in a moment ...He (the father) was complaining a little to us, hoping that we might influence his son favorably, because his son was not very enthusiastic about taking up the family business and things like that, and at one point the man pointed at that poster and said to me, “After all, Lord is telling Arjuna – ‘Get a job’!”

That’s why Arjuna is like..(Maharaj imitates Arjuna with his head in hands again), because Krishna is saying, “Get a job!”.. that’s the message of Bhagavad-gita… get a job. Karma-yoga, you have to work, get a job!… and I’m saying “gosh, I just never saw it that way”. It’s amazing, this type of interpretation. Somehow this is all connected…

So Vyasadeva is saying, “The Bhagavatam is not going to be about getting a job. That religion is about getting a job and worshipping your mother and father, regardless of what Tulasi Das says, it’s not going to be in this book”. Therefore its called in that sloka, śrīmad-bhāgavataṁ pramāṇam amalaṁ. Amala means without mal. Mal means impure, bad, stained...So, amala means… pure. So, the amala pramāṇam, pramāṇam means evidence..so, it’s saying, “What’s being presented here, is the purest of the pure, it has no reference point”.  That’s what it’s meaning by sectarian… Guru Maharaj likes to quote Hegel saying “reality is for itself, and by itself”. It’s not contingent upon something else.

So, dharma, artha, kāma, mokṣa, that’s not Srimad-Bhagavatam… What does it say? Premā pum-artho mahān ..the fifth [goal]…those are four (dharma, artha etc), what’s the fifth? Beyond that – prema, that’s what this is all about…

dharmaḥ svanuṣṭhitaḥ puṁsāṁ
viṣvaksena-kathāsu yaḥ
notpādayed yadi ratiṁ
śrama eva hi kevalam
(Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 1.2.8)

Sukadeva, when he begins speaking is saying, “Look, if your dharma, whatever it is you’re doing, if the end result of that…,” “Notpādayed yadi ratiṁ…,” utpādayed means you get some enthusiasm, some interest, excitement to hear about Krishna …”If that’s not the end result of what you’re doing, then stop what you’re doing!” It’s “śrama eva hi kevalam”, Srila Praphupada, Swami Maharaj renders that as “A useless waste of time”...Thats what he’s saying.

So, dharma, if it doesn’t get this result of provoking attraction to hear about Krishna… śravaṇam, kīrtanaṁ Krishna, then it’s useless. It’s dharma in name alone. So, Narada is telling Vyasa, “This is why you’re feeling despondent, because what you’ve given so far, even though that wasn’t your intention, people are interpreting it that way. They’re screwing out some sectarian idea about this, and that’s not going to liberate anyone in the true sense”…

“Muktir hitvānyathā rūpaṁ, sva-rūpeṇa vyavasthitiḥ” (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.10.6), cause real liberation means  svarūpa haya kṛṣṇera nitya dās… being the eternal servant of Krishna. That you have in the liberated world you have a part to play. You have a form, a personality, some seva, you’re part of it all. Not that you’re down here doing whatever, and God is up in Heaven, in the clouds, in the sky… alone, looking down, seeing if there’s some people he needs to punish.... He’s got nothing better to do… right? He’s just a lonely man, no consort… that idea, it’s not only partial, it’s unappealing.

So, he’s saying, “You have to tell people, really, truly who Krishna is, and that Krishna is not alone, there’s Radha and Krishna, and Lalita and Vishaka, Rupa and Rati, Nanda and Yashoda, Sridhama and Sudhama, Subala, that there’s this huge... the ultimate joined family …Goloka Vrindavan… That we have a part to play there…līlā, to play in those Divine Pastimes. That real liberation means a life of love with Krishna.

Otherwise people think the only place you can exercise these natural tendencies, innate tendencies that we all have, is in this world, and God is some monotonous thing, who from time to time expresses himself in the Saguna plane to catch people’s attention. So, jugupsitam, he’s condemning him for that... and I find it ironic that… I mean in a good way, that later this word jugupsitam is used… So what is Bhagavatam? We’re told if it’s the body of Krishna, the tenth canto is his smiling face, and what is is by structure? The tenth canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, where (we find) the Pastimes of Krishna, culminating in the Pastimes of Krishna with Srimati Radharani and the Braja-gopis, so after all these sages here this, because now Vyasa has infused this in Sukadeva Goswami… “pariniṣṭhito ’pi nairguṇya, uttama-śloka-līlayā” (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 2.1.9), uttama-śloka… Now Sukadeva has told this to Pariksit Maharaj and he looks out and all those sages, assembled there from all over the universe, of all the various schools of theistic thought. They’re shocked to hear about Krishna’s Pastimes.

And so, Pariksit Maharaj seeing that, says to Sukadeva Goswami, “You said in the beginning about jugupsitam, about what is condemnable, that Narada is condemning Vyasa for giving religion and is saying, “Now you have to give them the truth, the absolute truth and nothing but the truth,” and what is that? Krishna’s Pastimes with Radharani and the Braja-gopis, which appear to be, ostensibly adharmic, irreligious”. So, he’s saying, “Religion’s bad, and this breaking of religious principles by the supreme entity, that’s good, that’s what we should all give ourselves to”. So, the look on those faces of some of those sages… Guru Maharaj said, “It was shocking enough for them to hear that the Supreme entity is like a human being”

kṛṣṇera yateka khelā, sarvottama nara-līlā,
nara-vapu tāhāra svarūpa
gopa-veśa, veṇu-kara, nava-kiśora, naṭa-vara,
nara-līlāra haya anurūpa
(Chaitanya-charitāmṛta, Madhya 21.101)

Two arms, dressed as a cowherd boy, playing the flute, his Pastimes… So, that was shocking enough, hearing that he’s human like, but now they’re being told not only is he like a man, but he’s like an immoral man.

They’re going “That’s too much!” Therefore getting the cue from Pariksit Maharaj, they’re working in tandem Pariksit Maharaj and Sukadeva Goswami …One sloka is the “īśvarāṇāṁ vachaḥ satyaṁ,” (Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.33.31)… Those who are the Isvaras, the controllers… in the God position, you follow what they tell you to do, and don’t imitate their activities. It’s where do as I say, and not as I do, takes on an absolute quality and characteristics, and it’s mentioned by example also… Siva...  One of Siva’s names is Nīlkaṇṭha, means blue necked, blue throat. Why? Because, when the devas and asuras were churning the milk ocean, and nectar was being generated, just like when you do these things, there’s the āmṛta, the nectar, the cream, and then the impurity part. So, poison was also separated, but in oceanic proportion, and they thought, “What to do?” Lord Siva came and he drinks this ocean of poison, and on account of that he’s Siva, his Divine position… The end result is – his neck turns blue.

In other words, he’s unaffected. So, in this sloka he’s saying, “To imitate, or even approach these Pastimes, without proper qualification, a drop of this type of substance will have poisonous effects upon an unqualified person”, and I find it interesting that here one of the specialities in Thailand, they have snake farms, and they milk the snake venom from the snakes, and that snake venom is used to create an antidote to snake bites. But it’s the antidote when you are suffering from snake bites. It says, sometimes viṣa-abdhi, …means an ocean of poison, viṣa… Sometimes separation from Krishna is compared to snake bite, if the if the devotee is in that condition, they’re hemorrhaging… at that time we’re told, this substance, which would be poisonous for someone unqualified, in other words someone not feeling separation from Krishna, the heart not feeling the absence of Krishna, generating such pull and Divine substance, through heartfelt expression, it will be like poison for them. Whereas, for those feeling separation, when they hear these Pastimes, it will cure them. They’ll be nourished by it.

And he’s also saying, “And for this hṛd rogam, this heart disease, this is the cure”. So sometimes, people would say, “Wait, It says right here, that the cure for the heart disease is to hear the Pastimes of Radharani, the Braja-gopis and Krishna”, but those in the line of Bhaktivinoda Thakur and Saraswati Thakur, they’re saying, “Only when you’re dhīra, when the senses are controlled” …what do they say?

vikrīḍitaṁ vraja-vadhūbhir idaṁ cha viṣṇoḥ
śraddhānvito ’nuśṛṇuyād atha varṇayed yaḥ
bhaktiṁ parāṁ bhagavati pratilabhya kāmaṁ
hṛd-rogam āśv apahinoty achireṇa dhīraḥ
(Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.33.39)

That when your senses are controlled, when you’re free from these things, at that time it will have this wonderful effect, but it appears that the verse is saying something else. But they’re saying, “No, if you’re under the influence of mundane lust, then don’t try to make your approach to the erotic Pastimes of Radha, Krishna and the Braja-gopis”. Once Srila Gurudev said something very interesting about this, he said, “Yes!, it is the medicine, it is the cure, but like homeopathic medicine, first you have to identify what is that medicine?, what is the desired potency?, what is the dosage?” and then he added one more thing, he said “and your time for healing has to have come”. …on top of it all. So he’s saying, “Yes! This is that, but the experts will give it in what potency?, what dosage ? and at what time?”

So, Srila Guru Maharaj explains in the beginning of the introduction to The Golden Volcano of Divine Love that Mahaprabhu takes us in his rendering of the Bhagavatam from ontology or the world of philosophy and such things to the domain of Divine Love, to Rasa, and that’s why any apparent reference on a sectarian level, is nothing more than that, an apparent  reference. If anything, it’s performing some ancillary function, to give some credence to what is the message of Bhagavatam, which Guru Maharaj summed up nicely in his original composition, the sloka,

ya damiya mahimā śrī-bhāgavatām kathāyām
pratipadam anubhutam-apy-ālabdhābhideya
tad-akhila-rasa-mūrteḥ śyāma-līlābalambaṁ
madhura rasādhī rādhā-pāda-padmaṁ prapadye

He’s saying “Although, ostensively her name (Radharani) is not mentioned in the Bhagavatam, every sloka, every step along the way, is meant to take us in the direction of the service of her holy, lotus feet”, which means Radha-dasyam, the service of Srimati Radharani, that’s the message of the Srimad-Bhagavatam.

Hare Krishna